Nick Clegg appeared on Newsnight on Wednesday night at the end of a feature on Tory/Lib Dem marginals in the South West.
He said that Theresa May had called the election for cynical and opportunistic reasons, to try and “hoover up a huge majority” before the effects of Brexit hit and capitalising on the weakness of Corbyn.
He said that issues like the chronic underfunding of the NHS and schools were also important and were being overshadowed by Brexit.
In an interesting glimpse to our election strategy, he said that it was clear that Theresa May would still be PM and the Tories would still be the party of Government and the key test now was how to provide effective opposition to that Government. We are not going to sustain Theresa May in power to “implement a self-harming hard brexit” and we certainly aren’t going to help Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street.
You can already see the Tories ramping up the fear of Corbyn as PM. There is a rush of articles suggesting that he might win. We should not dismiss these, whatever the polls say, because the role of blatant lies in winning both the 2015 election and the referendum is well documented.
What May is most worried about, of course, is not Corbyn, because he is no threat, but a massive group of Lib Dems holding her government’s feet to the fire. Let’s make that happen over the next 7 weeks.
You can listen to the whole feature here from about 30 minutes in.
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51 Comments
Areas like Cornwall will be interesting. They did vote to Leave the EU, but then quickly put in requests to the Government to have their current EU funding guaranteed, and I think it’s an area ripe for regret and/or resentment about how the Leave campaign operated and the Tories are handling negotiations.
The Cornish votes vs the result has been one of the key graphics used by the MakeVotesMatter campaign to show system works, so I expect a few extra people to be extra motivated to replace the Tories, preferably with us.
The Lib Dems are best positioned to speak for those who voted remain, however the strategy since the referendum means that, largely, Lib Dem concerns in all other areas of political life are “overshadowed by Brexit”. It seems that Clegg is speaking about the Lib Dem party rather than its election strategy.
“We are not going to sustain Theresa May in power to “implement a self-harming hard brexit” and we certainly aren’t going to help Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street.”
Yet again it seems that the party is more likely to support May over Corbyn, but why is this the case? If you return to the quote about underfunding of schools and NHS and our beliefs fall far more in line with Corbyn than the government spending a good chunk of the budget to bring back grammar schools and is making further and further cuts to those with psychological mental health needs.
Things seem to be shifting very quickly at the moment – could we see Polls putting us ahead of Labour ?
Lots of Labour voters are primarily Anti-Tory or just general Centre-Left, they vote Labour because they are the largest Alternative to The Conservatives. If those voters get the idea that we are replacing Labour as The 2nd Party could large numbers start to shift to us ?
Equally, many Vote Tory as a protection against the threat of Labour, if that threat seems to be dissoving might they think again ?
I dont say that any of this is the most likely outcome, just that its possible.
I dont envy the people in charge of Targetting, the ground is shifting under our feet.
Nick Clegg clearly remains more drawn towards the Tories compared to his flat out ‘no Corbyn deal whatsoever’.
I just don’t understand what specific policies Corbyn supports that makes the LibDem leadership more likely to consider cosying up to the Tories again.
@ Dave Orbison,
There is a willingness to overlook tory incompetence.
As for policies, the Liberal Democrat Party would do well to steer clear of any debate about the NHS and how it came to be in its current parlous state.
Dave
“I just don’t understand what specific policies Corbyn supports that makes the LibDem leadership more likely to consider cosying up to the Tories again.”
Venezuelan socialism.
Jane, Isn’t that mainly down to ruinous PFI contracts entered into by Gordon and Tony over their 13 years, in an attempt to put on later generations the cost of paying for new hospitals that they weren’t prepared to pay for when they were in power?
Just asking …
Apologies, I should have put Jayne.
Even if Libdem chooses Tories over Corbyn, supply and confidence would be a far safer choice. Every single Lib-Con Coalition in the history benefited the Tories.
@ David Evans.
Wasn’t it the Conservatives who introduced PfI schemes, admirably opposed by Harriet Harman and Alisatiar Darling who perceptively saw it as creeping privatisation. Yes New Labour did sign off many such schemes nevertheless.
When the Tories continued with PFI under the guise of PFI2 , did the Liberal Democrats who enabled them during the coalition years, put up a fight against this privatisation and refuse to have anything to do with schemes that indebted future generations, let alone this one, with the cost of infrastructure projects?
Just telling…..
I thought it interesting when one lady interviewed said that she would not vote for a party that called her stupid for voting Leave. Obviously Nick Clegg was not there to argue, but to understand. I personally would have said ‘I should be so lucky. I get called a Remoaner, a Saboteur, an Enemy of the People. Obviously you are not that, and neither am I’
In my opinion, this strategy is spot on. It is clear that May and the Conservatives are going to win the election so we should be fighting on the basis of being an effective opposition and denying her a landslide victory.
The additional nuance I would add is reminding people that landslide victories in the past brought us the poll tax and the Iraq war. An effective opposition is vital to hold governments to account.
Of course, this goes against established wisdom that you need to project yourself as a party of government. However, credibility demands that aim instead at opposition. It also has the advantages of (a) being true and (b) defusing the “coalition of chaos” line that the Tories are running.
Manfarang – Venezuelan socialism? Really?
Tories are ripping the heart out of public services, the NHS is being starved of cash, people are committing suicide as a result of benefits cuts, schools are in crisis and the amount of debt under the Tories is far, far greater than that under Labour. Yet another coalition with Tories is more palatable with you than the with Corbyn because you create and project an image to with which you label Corbyn based on nothing other than dogma.
PFI was a disaster. The Tories brought this in not that this absolves Labour. Corbyn? Oh yes he opposed it but why look at facts when loathing and prejudice can guide you.
Dave
I remember well the Lib-Lab. Guess which group among the Labour MPs was opposed to it. Somethings don’t change in British politics.
Lib-Lab pact 1978
@ Mark Goodrich,
You currently have 9 MPs. How many do you think you will have after this election?
You have already conceded victory to the Conservatives, what on earth makes you think the party will have enough MPs to be an effective opposition?
I can’t vote for your party because I believe that the pinnacle of its ambition is another ‘crossed- fingers’ coalition with the Conservatives.
Jayne
There will be no coalition with the Conservatives because of Brexit.
@ Manfarang,
So why does Tim Farron refuse to rule one out?
Jayne
He isn’t ruling it in.
@ Manfarang,
Thank you for making me laugh.
He was asked a straight question in Parliament.
‘ Will you rule out a coalition with the Conservatives, yes or no?
We really should rule out a coalition with the Conservatives. If our goal is to replace Labour as the main opposition then we can’t even consider a coalition.
Jayne
There are no straight questions asked in Parliament.
I would have thought Nicks comments make it clear that we have no interest in being “cosied up” to the Tories. Jayne so you will vote Labour/Green and have no effect on the outcome of the Gen. Election. Oh Well
“So why does Tim Farron refuse to rule one out?”
Because it’s not his choice. If there’s a coalition negotiation, the party membership — not the leader, not the MPs, the members — make the final decision, which requires a 2/3 majority at special conference. We decide, not him.
Also, tactically, since our best hope of gaining seats is to win them from Tories, you don’t win those voters over by saying “we’ll put Jeremy Corbyn in power”.
The fact remains that it’s the choice of the membership, and frankly I know of *no-one* in the membership who wants a coalition with either party.
Andrew
You beat me to it. You are exactly right.
@ Manfarang,
He was asked that straight question in parliament by the SNP’s John Nicholson 3 days ago.
Tim’s attempts to duck an dive when asked a straight question are becoming part of a pattern.
Jayne, you seem to have wiped thirteen years of Labour government from your memory. So much so you don’t refer to it at all when asked to. I know that enables you to post here with a clear conscience, but there were more PFI contracts issued under Labour than under all other governments by a long way.
Just reminding …
Jayne
It’s a Yes/No Question. A loaded yes/no question.
There will not be another Coalition with the Tories even if the numbers gave no party a majority (very unlikely). If the Liberal Democrats have enough MPs to go into a Coalition we will be on a roll and ready to go for another GE in September/October to kill off Brexit. So a caretaker minority government by the largest party till then. I don’t think another Lib-Con Coalition could be got through our party and if it did there would be mass resignations (including me).
It’s very easy to throw blame around with PFI, but PFI was only used so widely by Labour because years of under-investment by the Tories had to be turned around with a great urgency. We are still paying those costs now, but then many of us have also had the benefit of better schools and hospitals as a result. The real, retrospective, solution, was that the hospitals and schools should never have been allowed to get that bad in the first place. It’s not so much that we are still paying for hospitals built under Labour, it’s that we are still paying for hospitals that should have been built and paid for under the previous Tory government.
Clearly, there are many lessons that can be learnt, but we need to be honest about who was first trying to postpone paying for schools and hospitals, and just because much of that spending was simply bringing facilities up to scratch, and we all got used to it, doesn’t mean that we should take those facilities for granted, or act as if building schools and hospitals was a waste of money.
Jayne – if you think there is any chance of another coalition with the Tories, you clearly don’t know the party very well. And there is no chance based on the polling either.
Dave Orbison, I agree with you, as Liberals who believe no one should be enslaved by poverty, ignorance, ill health, the overweening power of the wealthy, or government etc, we cannot allow these policies to carry on any longer in pursuit of reducing a government debt that stubbornly rises all the time. These policies aren’t working and carrying on with them in case they work sometime in the future seems like madness to me. The Liberals were the first party to introduce redistribution ( Lloyd George 1909), even David Laws doesn’t agree with austerity any more because he thinks it’s gone too far, so why would we want to go into Coalition with the Tories again?
As for Corbyn, his policies may superficially look attractive but his history is one of supporting class warfare and public ownership as a mantra. We Lib Dems don’t want that, we have to work pragmatically to ensure our aims because we dislike overweening power, whoever wields it. At the moment I’m seriously concerned for our democracy and both the Tories and Labour under Corbyn threaten it’s existence.
Who thinks May is going to win?? Lib Dems need to get some backbone and fight. When my son and daughter in America voted for Clinton, by post, 10 days before the election she was 10 points ahead in the opinion polls and we all know the result. Which Tory policies would LD MPs support and which Labour policies do they dislike. I’m very confused.
Actually, with Farron’s social liberal stance (unlike Clegg), it’s unlikely that Libdem would join Tory again.
Manfarang – I too remember the Lib-Lab pact but that was 40 years ago. So what? I see you ducked a my straightforward question which was what specific policies advocated by Corbyn do you find so unacceptable? Not just unacceptable bur SO unacceptable as to rule out any prospect of a coalition with Labour so decisively as did Nick Clegg and Tim Farron.
Reliance on labels such as Corbyn ‘fights class wars’ really cuts no ice not least when you rely on events that are 40 yrs old. I agree with Jayne – it seems the only objective of the LibDems is to try and displace Labour as the Opposition. Then what?
It’s ironic that there are many here that would lecture ‘the left’ that without power you can affect no change and yet that is the current goal.
Rather than hark about 40 yr events recent history shows that LibDems grab for power with the Tories was masterfully managed by the Tories to the cost of the LibDems reputation as decisively judged by the electorate just two years ago. So what now?
The LibDems strategy based on nothing other than trying to replace Labour as the Opposition thereby conceding the election to the Tories.
I have no problem telling people that I agree with some LibDem policies – even voted for them. Yet this tribal anti-Labour no-matter-what adopted by the LibDems just baffles me when the alternative Tory Government offers a long, long list of appalling policies. It seems that the LibDem Party exists simply to justify its own existence rather that to affect policy. I really think the party has lost its way or perhaps I was just naive in supporting them once upon a time.
The last thing anyone wants to hear are the words “Lib Dem” and “coalition” spoken in the same breath. The party should fight this election on liberal principles, not on promises (implicit or otherwise) to go into coalition with one or another party — a thing which isn’t even on offer.
PFI was essentially an accounting scam, albeit an expensive one, to keep the Government’s annual borrowing requirement down. It wasn’t privitisation in the classic sense, since even when the Government finances hospitals and schools by convention means the buildings are usually built by private construction companies – as happens with a PFI – and even the maintenance will often be contracted out to private companies – as happens with a PFI. The NHS undoubtedly lacks sufficient financial resources to meet the needs of an aging population (I’m not so sympathetic to complaints from schools, given the fact that year in year out their budgets were protected while FE was expected to do more with less money solely through efficiency savings.) The question therefore is how do we pump more money onto the NHS. Either we raise taxes for everyone or we find ways, akin to prescription charges, to get those who use the service to pay, at least in part, for the service. The privitisation argument is a red herring, put forward by those on the right who imply that this is a way of improving the efficiency of the NHS, even though any financial savings fall well short of the money needed, and by the left whose default position is defending state producer interests, resisting the concept of controlling demand by financial means (preferring in practice rationing), rejecting the concept of efficiency improvements through innovation, and claiming that all the shortcomings of the system can be solved by simply taxing the rich.
Why doesn’t Libdem just fight the election as an independent representative of Liberalism, like Macron was doing in France? Going into the election as a third force rather than for a Tory-led Coalition would be much more appealing. I think Libdem must immediately demand a member vote on whether to join Tory Coalition or not (frankly I think that anyone who reads UK political history should know that every single Lib-Con coalition, 1915, 1918, 1931, 2010, resulted in a disaster for Liberals).
I think it’s a utter nonsense for a stauch Pro-EU party to go into a Coalition with a bunch of hard Brexiteers.
And I think Libdem members should have ruled out any kind of Tory Coalition as soon as Farron moved the party back to the Social Liberal (centre-left) stance.
@ Dave Orbison. Agree.
Sometimes a kind of class war is necessary. You know, LVT is considered as a class war by the Right.
@ Tony Greaves ” I don’t think another Lib-Con Coalition could be got through our party and if it did there would be mass resignations (including me).”
Me too.
The real issue is how those on the centre left react to what will emerge on 9 June. Will there be a seismic change if Labour implodes ? We’ll see.
Dave Orbison:
Quite apart from anything to do with policies (and Corbyn’s compliance with Brexit is whopping great issue), no responsible party could ever agree that someone as incompetent as Corbyn be PM.
Tony Greaves:
A completely spot on analysis. Nonetheless for the sake of form the Party has to say that it would be open to exploratory talks with larger parties. But Brexit is the stumbling bock as are Corbyn, McDonal and a host of right wing headbangers in the Tory Party. Besides it is all too hypothetical to waste time over.
I think this constant knee jerk reaction to the word ‘coalition’ has to stop. Unless we get on and fight the election as Liberal Democrats and maximise the anti brexit vote the Tories will win and any talk of coalitions will be irrelevant.
We can do very well at this election, but only if we focus on the job in hand and stop allowing ourselves to be diverted by those who only wish us harm.
Dave
Labour were rolling out its policies and as such the process is incomplete. I object to Its current leadership belief on Europe and not holding a second referendum.
In years past I belonged to a trade union so I am familiar with all the shenanigans. When I hear some railway workers talking I realise somethings haven’t changed much over the years. (yes I am aware of bad management)
Brexit is going to be very rough. The pound sterling may well lose half its value.
I’m in Yeovil. I’d love to vote Lib Dem, because I oppose the Tories. I won’t unless there’s a categorical statement committing to no coalition with the Tories under any circumstances. Not probably won’t, unlikely to, if you understood the party you’d realise…
Just a simple statement. If the party thinks I’m alone down here with that view, it’s going to get a surprise. I don’t blame Tim for Clegg’s actions – for standing in the south west as the opposition, and then becoming the prop. But the credibility issue is not on my side.
Fool me once…
Martin – the media has done its best to vilify Corbyn. I haven’t been taken in with this portrayal. An independent study recently found 75% of media stories related to him were not true.
But even if he was incompetent, surely it’s better to have the right policies over and above anything else. As for Europe he argued the case to stay in. Anyone who says different is wrong. He truthfully gave the EU 7/10 as there were things that need to addressed in the EU. I agree with that too.
As for post referendum it’s a mess which ever way we go. But there is a whole spectrum of important policies that need to be tackled. Swapping LibDems for Labour as the Opposition would have no meaningful impact. But for the LibDem leadership not to rule out a coalition with the Tories whilst doing so with Labour is shocking.
It does not matter a jot as to whether or not this will happen or if the membership could veto it; it speaks to the relative values of the leadership. A bad policy is a bad policy irrespective of who ‘owns’ it and the converse is true. If Tim Farron and Nick Clegg would more willingly countenance a partnership with the Tories still, then shame on them.
@ Bob Sayer,
‘Jayne so you will vote Labour /Green and have no effect on the outcome of the Gen election’.
No change there bob, I spent all my voting life up to 2015 voting Liberal – Lib Dem.
@ David Allen,
There is nothing clear about my conscience but I do like honest politicians. If you want an honest approach to PFI during the New Labour years may I suggest you read a Guardian article from 2015:-
‘Labour must clear up the mess it made with PFI and save the health service’ ( Jeremy Corbyn).
According to Andrew Hickey it is not Tim Farron’s choice as to whether the Liberal Democrat’s will join a coalition with the tories. If that is so, why should one feel confident when Tim Farron now says that he will not form a coalition with the Conservatives?
@ Dave Orbison,
Perhaps it is just that I always feel the need to support the underdog, but I agree with you, there is no fairness involved in the criticisms of Corbyn. Whatever his shortcomings, there is something repellant about those who have turned him into some sort of bogeyman parroting received wisdom instead of making a careful judgement. I will check his past voting records, and what he has actually said since his election as leader of the Labour Party.
@ David Evans,
Now it is my turn to apologise for addressing you incorrectly.
Please accept my apology.
Nick Clegg was ‘polished’ in performance as he often is. But please do not muddle this polishedness up with any strategic insight. Under Nick Clegg’s leadership, the party did not have any strategy at all with the inevitable result.
It would be nice to believe that there is something in terms of central strategy within the Party which might affect the outcome in terms of the number of seats which we win. The jury must surely be out on that one.