Canvassing during the referendum in the London borough of Merton one point came up on a surprising number of households – what was going to happen to people from the EU living here if we voted to Leave. We were only canvassing people entitled to voted in the referendum but in many cases the person who opened the door was from the EU and their partner was British. It was often said slightly jokingly with people saying they could tell us how their British partner would be voting ‘or else’ but with an undertone of concern. As the polls got worse the concerns got greater and at out street stall in Morden the Saturday before the vote several people spoke of real concern – as one women put it to me ‘my son loves his school, my husband has a good job and we have a nice flat. I don’t want to leave and go back to Italy – this is now our home’.
With the result – and what seem to be increasing attacks on immigrants those concerns have only got worse Last Saturday we held a street stall in Wimbledon asking people to sign our petition that people from the EU who are here should be able to carry on living and working here without any concern about any worries – and that the same thing should apply to British citizens in the rest of the EU. We had a quite extraordinary response – I have never seen anything like it. People were queuing up to sign , shaking our hands and thanking us for taking up the issue. There is a real concerns about the uncertainty which makes it impossible for people to plan for the future.
It would seem a simple thing for the Government to assure people already here that they should have no fears – and ask for the support of the opposition parties in giving assurance but David Cameron’s comments at PMQ yesterday were nowhere near strong enough:
‘I very much hope that the rights and allowances given to EU citizens here now working and studying and contributing would continue. ‘.
We Lib Dems should be leading the campaign and asking all parties – and the leaders of the Leave campaign to give the clearest possible assurance and confirm that they won’t need to apply for work permits or visas. The Government should also resist the temptation to use EU citizens who are here as bargaining chips to protect the rights of our own people living elsewhere in the EU- though of course we should be negotiating to support them.
This is something that all local parties should take up and send a message to the communities that are affected that we understand their concerns.
The Merton Lib Dem petition is also online and can be seen here: www.mertonlibdems.org.uk/reassure_eu_citizens
* Simon McGrath is a Councillor in Wimbledon and is a member of the Federal Policy Committee and Federal Council.
Follow @libdemvoice.org on Bluesky
Like us on Facebook
Subscribe to our feed
Sign-up for our daily email digest
The Major Oak is dead and Phil Harding has discovered another ancient site near Stonehenge
Reform own goals
Trumps' White House thuggery appals the world including most Americans
expats
Mick Taylor
Mary Reid
Alison C
30 Comments
No one in the LEAVE campaign has suggested that EU people already living and working in the Uk would lose any rights to continue to do so.
It is only the REMAIN campaign that made that suggestion as a slur on the opposition campaign and an attempt to win votes on a false premis.
So you have set up a straw man to knock down.
I have a real dilemma…do I choose Liberal values or respect the democratic choice of my fellow citizens. While I sympathise with my colleagues who voted to stay with Europe…do we not have abide by the decision. Certainly in the area where I reside people are just waiting to see what happens next…even with my younger associates feel our party stance will, in the long term, work against us. Do we realistically think that by including in our manifesto a return to Europe…will appeal to voters? If we expect to project our values surely, at the very least, they must be achievable ? We have, even with a limited amount of MP’s, expertise that could be used to ensure party representation at the table of consultation and subsequently demonstrating we can seriously represent our electorate. Maybe after 32 years in the party my fundermental’ sate all wrong? Time to move on ?
It wasn’t just future immigration that was the cause of our ills; the subtext (and not so very sub) were those already here…It was no coincidence that areas with the highest EU immigrant population were those that voted most strongly for ‘Brexit’….
When the post EU England ‘flowing with milk and honey’ fails to materialise, immigrants already here will be identified as the cause… We are already seeing a spike in anti EU immigrant feeling…Sadly, I think it will only get worse with every failure to deliver the economic miracle promised…
David – you’re right, the LEAVE campaign didn’t say that EU people living in the UK would lose their rights – mainly because they didn’t say what they’d actually change about immigration, other than it being “out of control”.
Following the result, there are now three likely outcomes:
1) No change to freedom of movement, as part of a deal to stay in the common market.
2) “Amnesty” for those EU citizens already in the UK. Points based system for all new migrants
3) Non British EU citizens lose the right to live and work in the UK and must apply for a visa to remain. British citizens overseas may also need to return to the UK.
1 is most likely and least damaging, but would appear to go against the spirit of what LEAVE campaigned on. Exactly what will have changed? Won’t all of their voters who wanted to reduce immigration be disappointed?
I’ve encountered LEAVE campaigners who asked my (American) wife if she was worried about immigration. When she pointed out that she was an immigrant, they replied “Oh we don’t mean people like you”. Draw your own conclusions
Personally, I think freedom of movement will continue. What will change is the right to reside. The point to me, is that the EU made everyone in its member states citizens of Europe. Cameron’s proposed benefit restrictions was really a proxy battle about the changed nature of nationality thus the nation state within the EU. People talk about controlling borders and immigration, but the EU created a new kind of citizenship based on a broader European “nation” which means people were not emigrating as such. They were really relocating. Obviously, Brexit changes that. My guess is that any new rules will not be applied retrospectively to people already here, but will have a long term impact on the ability of people to relocate.
I agree we must stand up for EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens abroad. The brexit vote has damaged families. I know someone threatening to split up their family and move back to continental Europe because they don’t feel welcome here anymore and fear an increase in anti-migrant abuse and dirty looks. It’s awful.
In relation to Mr Evershed’s comment. Actually the suggestion that EU nationals would have to leave was fundamental to Leave’s victory, and I can say for a fact most leave voters I met in Kent Specifically voted that way because they expected that to occur. I have had over 50 Leave voters tell me so, mostly joyfully. Several of them also said oh good now the scots will soon have to leave too.
@David Evershed
When the leave campaign said “We want our country back” what exactly do you think that meant? Are you really, genuinely, surprised that some people have taken it to mean the forced repatriation of foreign-born and ethnic minority citizens?
Nigel Farage EU speech.
https://www.facebook.com/nigelfarageofficial/videos/1056952377685698/
@ David – “It is only the REMAIN campaign that made that suggestion as a slur on the opposition campaign and an attempt to win votes on a false premis.”
Agreed. They also did the same over post Brexit numbers, taunting the Leave side in the last debate that Leave wanted more immigration because of “points system, muh!”
My wife is Polish, I voted leave. Because of the ugly campaign, in part the fault of Remain, i have apologised to my european friends for the tone of the debate, and not for my decision.
I absolutely want no-one resident in the country repatriated as a result of our exit.
Your Petition is an excellent idea, I hope its widely copied.
@ Leave UK,
I am sure that Nigel Farage spoke to his audience. I am not one of them.
@ Simon McGrath,
Thank you for the petition. A really good idea. I think we need to copy the idea in different areas. The vilification of hard working EU nationals who have helped to rescue our economy should be praised.
I love the new Polish members of my family. An unexpected bonus of free movement.
What seems likely to me is that EU citizens will be allowed to remind and similarly British citizens in the EU. I suspect they will both lose rights. Maybe on health, benefits and possibly index linking of pensions etc.
Thus by default they may be “encouraged” to leave or am I bing cynical
@ Simon McGrath,
Obviously, I meant to write that those who vilified EU nationals should be condemned, not praised!
I am a EU citizen. I thank the LibDems for generously fighting for people like me over the years. In gratitude, I joined the LibDems as part of the 2015 wave of new members. It didn’t occur to me that I was an immigrant; rather, I felt I was just a European relocating to a part of Europe (South West England) that is more to my liking. I always felt welcome here in England, most of all by fellow LibDems. Til Friday, this was “home.” I guess I live in a very sheltered, “Remain” neighbourhood. Thanks again to all LibDems.
“No one in the LEAVE campaign has suggested that EU people already living and working in the Uk would lose any rights to continue to do so.
It is only the REMAIN campaign that made that suggestion as a slur on the opposition campaign and an attempt to win votes on a false premis.
So you have set up a straw man to knock down.”
… exactly. This point was made on several occasions during the campaign, and yet we get articles such as this pretending that never happened.
@David Eveshed – Perhaps those who say that Leave havent said that people from the EU who are here should actually talk to some people and listen to their concerns ?
Almost 37years ago I wrote and presented a report to the then Home Secretary on racial violence. Willie Whitelaw was shocked by it and acted upon it. Back then fringe extremist, neo-Nazi groups were the perpetrators. The colour of skin and the image of faith badged the victims. Today that has broadened to EU citizens, mainly from Eastern Europe. The creators of this “climate of hate” has also broadened to the “mainstream”. Political, cultural, faith and other leaders have a clear responsibility to lead and help create a Society in which there’s no place for “casual” racism. UKIP and the BREXIT leaders have, by intent or otherwise, legitimised this hate. Liberally minded people have a duty to stand up clearly, publicly and repeatedly against it. Well done to the Merton Lib Dem team for acting on that duty. We’re following your lead in Wiltshire.
Chris,on TV I have seen members of ethnic minorities complaining about Immigration from the EU. An elderly white man saying I’m not a racist, that’s black people, I don’t mind black people it’s these EU migrants…
This is a very complex situation and communities that are suffering because their local services, NHS, education, housing are stretched to breaking point have not been helped by all three main parties. We can’t just ignore this or the problem will get worse. If we carry on forcing the have nots to have even less, the poor are definitely being enslaved by their poverty. As Lib Dems we must fight against this just as much as we must fight for the rights of EU members already living here.
The petition is a great idea. Here is a parallel petition which I think makes very similarv points, and which has achieved far more signatures to date:
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/guarantee-no-change-in-the-status-of-e-u-citizens-currently-living-in-the-u-k
Perhaps these two campaigns could be brought together?
“No one in the LEAVE campaign has suggested that EU people already living and working in the Uk would lose any rights to continue to do so. …
So you have set up a straw man to knock down.”
Not so. The LEAVE campaign have been ambiguous, while some of their supporters have not. The bullies have been shouting things like “Poles Out!” It seems that supposedly “respectable” LEAVE campaigners are prepared to ridicule petitions which would put a stop to that kind of behaviour. Well David Evershed and Mark Seaman, do you really think that attitude can be called “respectable”?
Yes, conservatives making pacts with the far right does not have a good history.
If this goes badly wrong Cameron will be remembered as the worst PM since Chamberlain.
The Lib Dems are on the wrong side of history. Yes it’s important to protect EU citizens and to tackle racism. Frankly it’s even more important to do what the Lib Dems used to do and that was anticipating the future and thinking the unthinkable and smartly saying it. All that has gone.
The future isn’t the glacial customs union/soviet bloc style politics of the EU – it’s the EEA and the UK turning from `hyper-europeanism` to re-orientate itself globally (including the entirety of Europe). The Tories are starting to own that narrative. Only the old guard of it are pushing back on the referendum result.
The Lib Dems are in danger of becoming equivalent to Labour – Farronites equivalent to Corbynites speaking to core vote and no one else.
Thus, an obsession with the already legally protected EU citizens and the spike of awful attacks on them and others. Nothing wrong in this per se. It was the same with the way the Lib Dems obsessed about Spanish villa owners during the referendum.
This talks to Liberal Left pre-occupations with issues post-event rather than tackling the issues that cause them before the whole thing explodes. Why weren’t the Lib Dems dealing with the undercutting of wages to campaign on a balanced issue of migration before the referendum. Why weren’t the Lib Dems dealing with the issue of FTAs before the referendum?
The Lib Dems have a mindset of campaigning for a world as they’d idealise it rather than as it actually is and could become.
I am full of admiration for the work of Simon McGrath and his colleagues. And for looking for issues in the public eye. And even more for taking a truly Liberal stance.
We need though to talk about when we should have a referendum and when we shouldn’t. There should be a binding referendum when we have something to vote on. All the country agreed to was to leave, no plans were agreed, no bargaining position. We are now in a position where we have to leave, the people we are negotiating with know that. We will only get what we are given. We are not negotiating about whether to leave. We are negotiating about housekeeping in respect of running down our involvement. Future arrangements will have to be agreed by others.
No wonder Boris and that side kick of his looked so nervous. No wonder Farage is so elated. He will be able to attack the failures of Boris for at least five years and will have ample evidence.
Stress on on social services – hospitals, schools, housing is the responsability of government, and existing before but much increased by austerity, cuts, wilful blindness to warnings about the need to train enough nurses etc etc . This was NOT put to voters for obvious reasons.
Jane: interesting commentary. However politics for a small party, and that is what we are, is about grabbing a position that is unique, maybe a niche from which some growth can occur. Saying you will remain or rejoin the EU is one. To advance the Liberal Democrats need a stroke of electoral luck which usually comes from unexpected or unforseen events. This we have. Make the most of it, we may have to modify the stance in 4 – 5 years, but over the next 18 months it could be very valuable in turning short term history more in our direction. We may have a Labour split by Christmas. What is our reaction to that, how can we gain from it? This is a time of political opportunity, at the end of it all we may still be a minor party but a much larger one with more influence that we have now, we cannot have much now less can we? But to do this we have be be clearly identified with a cause or causes, whether others agree or not. There is no short term future in trying to be all things to all men.
David Evershed
No one in the LEAVE campaign has suggested that EU people already living and working in the Uk would lose any rights to continue to do so.
I am sorry, David, but the panic reaction I observed from people I know who are citizens of other EU countries living and working here contradicts what you are saying. For example, someone I have been dealing with directly to get some work done told me on the Saturday after the referendum that the work may not get done because some of the workers are already planning to leave, others have cancelled plans to come here, and the person is herself making plans to shift her business back to the country where she is a citizen.
The need for trading standards is such that even if we did leave the EU, we would have to have our own trading standards, and they wouldn’t be that much different from the EU ones. The idea that an agreement on common standards is some sort of slavery from which we are now free is hyperbolic nonsense. The balance of payments into the EU and grants and things coming back is such that leaving the EU won’t make that much difference in terms of available government money even if there is no big detrimental economic effect.
So, actually, the one big difference that leaving the EU can make is that we can refuse permission to EU citizens to live here. Therefore, since Leave is claiming what they want will make a big difference, if that is correct the only way they can do it is by just what you say they won’t.
I have this problem. I have said that I can’t see how Leave would achieve anything, and I’ve said that. But it’s not quite true, actually I can see how it could make big and fundamental changes. The problem is that it would involve things that are very unpleasant and illiberal. Expulsion of large numbers of EU citizens would be an aspect of it.
“No one in the LEAVE campaign has suggested that EU people already living and working in the UK would lose any rights to continue to do so.”
It’s irrelevant whether the leave campaign ‘said’ people could stay or not. The point is (and presumably why the prime minister is now being ambiguous) is that leavers want immigration to be a point of negotiation – they want to end free movement. If free movement does end then those people who are here will need citizenship, a form of visa or another reference to them in law so they can remain and continue working. We will need to distinguish them from people who come after the end of free movement, otherwise our immigration system won’t function. What that looks like will presumably be a point of negotiation unless someone (Boris, the prime minister0 specifically states that it isn’t AND creates a system or form of law by which existing EU workers can stay even if we scrap free movement.
What people ‘say’ doesn’t matter now the (campaign is over!), we need actual law in order to give people security and give companies the confidence to continue to employ EU workers.
@Carl Quilliam “we need actual law in order to give people security and give companies the confidence to continue to employ EU workers.” – sounds reasonable.