In our most recent survey of Lib Dem members signed-up our discussion forum, we asked what folk think of the comments posted by our readers on the public blog.
We’ve tried different approaches to comment moderation on Lib Dem Voice. Initially, we were uber-liberal almost laissez-faire, only moderating comments which we judged were legally risky. Then, at the start of 2010, we decided in response to feedback from readers (including from those who ‘lurk’ but rarely comment) to moderate more actively, declining to accept comments which were at all abusive, or were completely off-topic. Our aim was, and is, to create an online community that lives up to its billing as ‘Our place to talk’.
It’s fair to say that our comments policy has been tested more than we might have expected, especially since the formation of the Coalition. Most of our threads contain comments from readers who are hostile to the Lib Dems, or at least to the policies the party has signed-up to as part of the Coalition. So we thought we’d try and find out what our readers who are party members think.
First of all, we asked: Do you read readers’ comments on Liberal Democrat Voice’s public blog?
- 76% – Yes
24% – No
To be honest, I was surprised the figure was as high as 76%, even among those who responded to our survey (who, it’s true, are more likely to be Lib Dem Voice regulars).
Of the 76% who answered ‘Yes’, we asked the following question: Do you think the comments threads enhance or detract from the site?
- 66% – Enhance the site
15% – Detract from the site
19% – Dont know / No opinion
By some margin, more than 4:1, Lib Dem party members who read the comments on Lib Dem Voice feel they enhance the site.
Of the 24% who answered ‘No’, we asked the following question: Is there any reason you don’t read the comments posted to Lib Dem Voice?
Here’s a flavour of the comments:
I procrastinate enough as it is!
Have you not read them…….
It’s the internet. It’s going to be full of trolls…
More important things to read and do.
Too many Labour trolls or angry ex-Libdem voters who hate the coalition & say they won’t vote Libdem ever again.
Go straight to member comments, public blog is rent-a-quote
They are so vitriolic & depressing. In fact they put me off reading LDV at all (I prefer sticking to the Members’ Forum)
Comments are full of nutters, surely everyone knows that đ
The Labour trolls just don’t seem to tire themselves out
Ignorance – will take a look
I used to read them, and contribute, but they usually deteriorate into arguments between activists of all parties, instaed of being a genuine debate within the party. I am not prepared to participate in fending off the hatred of Labour activists.
No – I just read the articles
Blogs comments are usually low quality; good comments are usually worth expanding on in future posts
They are generally childish and seem to be posted mainly by non Lib Dems
Can’t imagine my life being that empty! the main articles are often good however
What do readers make of Lib Dem Voice’s comments policy? Or the quality of debate on the public blog? Let us know what you think here…
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58 Comments
As the title say’s, surely the blog is “Our Place to Talk” and a one-way conversation gets very boring indeed.
Social Media is just that, a place to be social, which means interaction. I immediately leave blogs that do not allow comments, because I perceive the author(s) only want to “push” information. This is akin to Spam. Listening to feedback, and occasionally criticism, is part of the democratic process isn’t it?
James Rock
LibDem Party Member
I believe LDV has been excessively moderating peoples comments of late, during the local election campaign and AV. especially those comments that where critical of the Party or Nick Clegg.
I have posted comments that I believe where not in any breech of any forum rules, and yet they where held in auto-moderation for 10 hrs or more, only to then be removed.
10 Hours is a long time to wait for a comment to be authorized, especially if it is on a popular thread, by time your comment has been released, it is impossible to remain engaged in the debate.
LDV is a public form, and as such you must accept that there will be posters who are critical of the party, the coalition and the leadership.
I notice from conservative home, that there are many Liberal Democrat posters, who are more than comfortable with constant criticizing and going off threads.
LDV needs to return to Oct-Dec 2010, when the site was less moderated and allowed for much more open discussions and opinions.
Back then LDV used to enjoy threads that would regularly attract over 120 comments, Now it’s lucky to hit 20.
Many posters gave up posting here, due to the fact that they where being “heavily” moderated.
No doubt, many will want to label them all as Labour Trolls and good riddance, However, for this site to be truly impartial, it needs to be more open towards those who have differing opinions to the party.
The party and the grass roots needs to start engaging with the public again and listening to what people have to say, even when some of those things might be difficult to hear, But hey isn’t that what grown up politics is all about đ
Generally speaking, I find comments sections useful. Yes, some versions (feedback on most political sites, e.g. Guardian CIF or the Coffee-House bog) can make you despair in the future of humanity, but they give some idea of trends in debate, because even the hyperbolic vitriol which tends to dominate most such feedback discussions changes its flavour as the mood changes.
Concerning LDV specifically, I very much appreciate the moderation policy here, as far as I can judge it from what appears in the feedback threads. I think it’s working pretty well, since there is often vigorous argument and there is room for hostile comments, too, while destructive trolling (repetitive posts, abuse, attempts to end discussion by unreasoned shouting) seems to be kept out fairly effectively. People actually respond to each others’ posts and engage in discussion, and there is actually less of the overblown invective so typical for feedback on other political blog sites. Perhaps it is exactly this climate of discussion in a context where threads don’t grow too quickly so that people actually read and respond to comments, that also makes people think twice about posting too much unreasoned drivels – or is it really the moderators working hard? – difficult to tell. In any case, this means that – unlike in many other blogs’ feedback threads – it has remained possible to actually follow discussions here, even if at times they can be thoroughly depressing to read for a Liberal Democrat like myself (but that’s fair enough).
I am happy that we get a good range of opinions here – as long as those opinions are presented in the spirit of reasoned argument, at least comparatively speaking, if you take the usual standard around the web….
I bet I’m moderated before commenting.Enough said Stephen!
It is odd for a so-called “Liberal” party to auto-moderate swathes of their readership for fear of their views contradicting the leadership, no?
LabourList would have closed if it followed your moderation policy.
Matt @ 09:31 is right.
Several posters have been bullied off this site and personal and abusive comments were allowed against them when they were trying to discuss policies they felt to be wrong and not what they voted Lib Dem for. The wolves were really released. Maybe this attitude was one of the reasons for the recent results?
I agree very much with Matt. I’ve been moderated a number of times recently although I honestly don’t believe my posts have contravened the forum policy. In fact some of my posts that get through are more ‘robust’ than the ones that get deleted. The impression I get, rightly or wrongly, is that posts are getting rejected for political reasons. I can understand why coalition loyalists get fed up with the negative comments of ex Lib Dems but you’ll probably have to put up with it until you elect a new set of voters.
I do read comments and think they enhance the site. I agree that a sensible policy on abuse etc is needed.
I worry however that due to its ‘free for all’ nature, sensible comments (and I don’t mean mine!) are crowded out. These are largely from people who are hostile to the party, perhaps even hold membership of another. That does not help us to rethink our role, in this coalition government, or beyond.
Having said that, I do not want LDV to become a sterile place with people rushing to post in agreement with the party line. That would give us a false picture of the reality on the ground. These are tough times and we need to look at reality with our eyes open.
I suspect that it’s more the “Labour campaigners pretending to be ex Lib Dems” that annoy people. And it’s not that there’s a lot of them, it’s that they make a lot of posts under a lot of different names.
I had one comment moderated due to another person’s comment being moderated, which would have made my comment look in isolation and I think I’d had one other comment moderated for goodness knows what reason, the moderators obviosuly saw something I didn’t.
If you want cheerleading comments, safe comments, less comments and comments with a more bland outlook, then install Facebook comments, that is the way forward if you want to silence dissent.
Theres a balance. I find it annoying when people like ‘Cuse’ completely misunderstand liberalism. Being a liberal doesn’t mean that I have to be friends with everyone in the world, I can still choose who I talk to. Similarly, its possible for us to set up a site that just has constructive discussion of liberal things on it. Thats not illiberal. It would become an issue if there weren’t plenty of places to talk about the Lib Dems critically on the internet, that would be a problem, yes!
But theres so many places you can go and slag the lib dems off that we are under no obligation liberally to make this website a free for all.
Have you seen some of the comments here? Theres one of two guys ‘toryboysnevergrowup’ and some others that comment EXACTLY the same argument TIME AND TIME again on every single thread. If you’ve looked down lib dem voice its actually not tribal rubbish in general, the articles can be quite nuanced discussion or criticism of party or national policies. Yet its ruined by the 2nd comment when someone like toryboy posts ‘it doesnt matter because the liberals have destroyed any hope of being in government ever again, the world will end, liberals have killed all the puppies, YOU ALL HATE BABIES’.
Don’t moderate too much, but I think a system where comments that are off-topic or contain abuse can be moderated. My biggest problem with CiF is not the bilge that people post (though it does beggar belief sometimes) but the total number of posts: almost spanning a dozen pages. It’s too much and no one will ever read them all.
Otherwise, loosen up a bit.
I’ve been moderated a couple of times, Weirdly, for pointing out in to someone that I was not a fan of Tony Blaire.
But it doesn’t bother me that much. If you have too much of an open policy, sites can degenerate into abuse and pretty soon you up with a site dominated by wing-nut racist types. And in the end this is a Lib Dem forum. I’ve found it fairly open to critical views of the coalition.
Andrew Suffield
I don’t understand why you find it difficult to believe that there are a large number of disaffected ex Lib Dems. Every poll and election in the last year demonstrates that there are. Yougov reckons there are 4.7 million people who voted Lib Dem in 2010 who don’t intend to vote for them again. I suspect there are in fact no ‘Labour campaigners pretending to be ex Lib Dems’ posting on the site. I haven’t seen anything that suggests that anyone, whatever their political persuasion, is pretending to be something other than they are. Nor have I seen any evidence that people are posting under a variety of names and I suspect you have no evidence to back up your claim. In my own case I’ve always been clear. I’m a left liberal. I’ve never been a member of a political party or campaigned for one. I’m equally opposed to the thatcherite wing of the Lib Dems and the authoritarian wing of the Labour party. I voted SDP (Roy Jenkins) over Labour (George Galloway) in 1987. I voted labour 92 and 97. In the last 14 years I’ve voted Lib Dem (and Green in ithe scottish regional list). This year I voted SNP in order to oust the Lib Dem MSP I voted for in 2007.
In short I think you should consider the possibility that the reason why there are a lot of posts from disaffected ex Lib Dems on the site is because there are a lot of disaffected ex Lib Dems.
@Andrew Suffield.
“I suspect that itâs more the âLabour campaigners pretending to be ex Lib Demsâ that annoy people.”
Elsewhere on LDV, Mark Pack has claimd that the AV campaign was lost (amongst other reasons) because “talking to yourself is not enough”.
That you claim that those who disagree with you are automatically Labour “tribalists” (oh, the irony); and therefore should be moderated out of existence ;may give a hint as to why latest LD polling data is back down to 8%. Andrew R puts it perfectly. In essence, why is it so hard to believe that people like me once held membership cards – LD polling + votes have slumped since joining with the Tories. It really isn’t that difficult to believe!
Joe – I don’t “misunderstand liberalism”. I just happen to believe that the current Party leadership has subverted it for their own gain – and LDV has become a mouthpiece for them instead of it’s party members and activists. If you agree with them, more power to your elbow – but to criticize me shows what a narrow church LDV now wants to be.
I’ve never been a member of any political party. I was attracted to the Lib Dems because my political views are social-liberal. I have voted Lib Dem in numerous local elections. I voted lib Dem from 1997 until 2010 not as a labour protest vote, but because it reflected my views. I voted Labour in the 2010 because I liked my local MP and because the prospect of becoming an accidental Tory horrified me.
@ Cuse
I as a tad rude in using the phrase ‘misunderstand’ but I’m sorry, you’ve completely missed the point I made.
You were claiming its illiberal to moderate a forum, I made the point its not.
This forum isn’t ran by the leadership, its independent. It regularly criticises Clegg and the coalition and it does quite detailed opinion pieces on problems with policy we are doing. We even have independent articles, in the last week Iain Dale and someone from Compass have had their say on here.
You say Labourlist would of closed if it had followed the moderating policy here. I rarely get anything through on LabourList and I’m not super critical I often just say things like ‘from a liberal perspective this just seems to be wrong for these reasons….but I agree with this’ I’m not a troll on there at all. Similarly, I think LabourList is much much more pro-party establishment than LibDem Voice.
But ultimately your just using a straw man. This thread is NOT about killing all criticism of the party. No-ones suggested that we mod out critical comments. What we want modded out is the small minority of posters who never voted LD, will never vote LD and yet spend their entire internet lives posting the same argument on every single thread on here.
Stop arguing against points no-one is making.
I’d like a way to identify comments from current Lib Dem members such as highligitng their names in Gold (if they choose to identify themselves). I am more interested in the views of my fellow members to the views of Labour Trolls or bitter ex-members. Having said that some members of other parties, former members or members of no party do make interesting and valued contributions so I certainly wouldn’t want to do anything to prevent them commenting I’d simply like to know if they are or are not Lib Dem members.
I think the current moderation policy is about right but if anything the off topic comments part could do with being enforced a bit more as a lot of threads do go off on a tangent about things unrelated to the opening post (and often sent off on that tangent by a post totally unrelated to those that went before). Whole comment threads can be ruined if such an off topic post is the first or second comment made.
It’s amazing how this thread has brought so many of the incessant haters back from their recent absence. I wonder which Labour website the link was posted on?
Any chance of an IP comparison to see how many of them are the same person?
I used to vote Labour – but I left them in 2005 after Iraq and the way they started treating the disabled.
I’ve recently been moderated heavily as well – probably because I am disgusted that I believed your campaign and believed in your policies in May 2010 and gave my vote (I see votes as precious) to you. Now you are enacting policies that are nearly the complete opposite from what you campaigned on. I feel lied to and almost like a victim of fraud. I am mainly disgusted with the way the LDs have been joining the Tories to attack the sick/disabled when, before the election you promised to protect sick/disabled people. Now your welfare minister Webb just parrots right-wing talking points about “scroungers” and the “undeserving poor”. Many disabled people feel as if society no longer wants us. And, yes, I am very very angry as I am an advocate for disabled people in my job (and disabled myself, but still lucky enough to get DLA which allows me to work). I won’t be able to work once this is gone. This is short-sighted and will result in me needing MORE from the taxpayer in order to survive instead of less. With the economy the way it is right now, what employer will spend ÂŁ5000 modifying the workplace for someone like me? They’ll just hire the able-bodied person.
So I get moderated for pointing this out. That says it all. It is almost as if you don’t want to discuss this and many other policies so you just moderate and deny people their voice. Not very liberal or progressive, n’est-ce pas?
@Andrew Tennant:
You are really becoming paranoid, aren’t you? Why do you still have such a hard time believing that millions of people voted for you based on your May 2010 election campaign, but deserted you when you started disowning most of the policies you campaigned on. I have a feeling that if your vote share is even lower at the next election you’ll still deny the LDs have done anything to anger the electorate. Your denial of facts and reality is almost as breathtaking as Labour’s was concerning Iraq.
It says it all that you call people who you disagree with “haters”. I thought this place had a policy against calling people names..
Matt @ 09:31 is right.
One more point in addition that is kind of hypocritical⌠if you post similar comments in different threadsâŚyou get moderated off the boards⌠and yet we often see multiple articles on the same subject within hours of each other⌠AV is a good example at one point I think there was 6-7 articles on the front page in one day⌠hmm
But to be honest, I no longer care how intolerant you become; all you are doing is showing your true virtues.
I see that at least one of the ‘wolves’ I mentioned is here. Does not understand that anyone who disagrees does not have to be a labour supporter. Has he not learnt from the recent results that this sort of attack on people is turning droves away from the Lib Dems. I also suspect that the ‘wolves’ are careerists within the Lib Dem party. The reason I came back Mr Tennant is that I happened to stray again onto this PUBLIC forum and was able to say why I disappeared when I saw this thread. Because of people like you.
@AndrewR
As you know full well, @AndrewTennant is quite right. There really are just two although given that you and me are also the same person, there’s really just one. Every disgruntled voice on the site is actually posted by me, one bloke in Mandelson’s basement. Everything’s proxied via IRC-controlled 0wnz0red PCs, rootkits courtesy of the CIA and SVR, messages generated courtesy of Mr Markov and Rev. Bayes. Clever, innit, and maybe it’s unprofessional of me to unmask every sock-puppet on here, but truth is, I woke up today thinking: ten percent staff discount at PC World, vs. another month of ineffectual psyops whilst late-night snacking on Alastair Campbell’s soggy leftover egg and watercress sandwiches? No contest, really. Mandy, if you’re reading this, I quit; get a new code monkey, ‘cos it’s back to selling Samsung TVs for me.
—
To be honest I hadn’t even noticed that the comments policy had changed, but a lot of people, including Lib Dem voters, are finding it challenging to know how to react to recent events. One might expect repercussions in the quality and nature of (public) surrounding discourse.
1 – We definitely want to moderate out abuse, and the like
2 – I would like to be able to mark up comment thread writers who I never want to read, which would then not be shown when I am reading the comments (there are some real bores out there)
3 – I also like the CiF thing of being able to see which comments others like/dislike.
The double standards is one thing that annoys me.
It seems as though there is one rule for party supporters and another for “trolls”
Take for instance, once complaint seems to be about people posting off topic, hijacking threads, and repeating themselves.
There are several Liberal Democrat members who I can think of, who in my opinion, constantly do just that.
One Liberal democrat Councillor in particular, who shall go unnamed đ constantly spills out the same lines, no matter what the topic of debate is. “Trillion Pound Deficit” “ÂŁ120 Million Interest a Day”, “What would Labour Cut”
These people seem to go unsanctioned and get put on Auto Moderate, I assume because they are paid up party members.
However, People like myself, who in recent weeks have attempted to post on threads entitled about Nick Clegg, AV or the coalition, have found themselves sanctioned, unable to post, placed on Auto moderate and having comments denied which in my opinion where in no way breeches of forum rules. The only explanation I was given was because my posts apparently where “attacking” Nick Clegg.
I Dispute that claim and regard my posts as “highly critical” of Nick Clegg and of AV, There is a big difference đ
For this site to remain impartial, it’s moderating rules need to be the same, no matter what the affiliation of the person posting
Daft: Although the problem of astro-turfing can be over-stated, it’s a regrettably frequent occurrence on this site for people to try to post comments under multiple names. A fair number (though of course by no means all) of the names that used to comment and which no longer appear have disappeared due to such a faker being caught out.
This comments thread – proof perhaps that there’s no pleasing some people and that this site is a much more pleasant and insightful place without their repetitive ‘input’?
Matt: You’ve actually had, by my quick count, 23 emails in total explaining our moderation policy and answering your questions about it.
Squeedle: One of the reasons comments from you have been moderated (other than overstepping the line on abusive comments about other commenters) was the occasion when comments posted as if from four different people all came from apparently the same person sat at the same computer. There wasn’t any innocent explanation for this provided at the time, though of course if there was one by all means get in touch to clarify matters.
@Mark Pack
I am not disputing the fact that I corresponded with you “many” times with regards to the moderation policy. What I am disputing is what I felt was “unjust” Moderation.
Last year this site was extremely busy “every day” with posters on almost every thread, attracting well over 100 comments on each, Sure things got a bit heated sometimes, but hey that’s politics, Just look at how they behave in the House of Commons. As long as things do not resort to “personal” abuse
It is in my opinion, that the reason many regular posters stopped coming to the site, was due to being unfairly moderated, or being constantly insulted and vilified by certain people.
It is a great loss to this site IMO that these people felt that they were no longer able to post here. The whole purpose of a debating forum is to have “balance” which is Nye on impossible if one side is favored over the other.
If Liberal Democrats believe this site should be just for the purpose of party supporters, then you should make it a private forum only, however that wold be a great shame.
On a final note, I also think it is a good idea for people to be able to have their name highlighted in colour.
Yellow for libs, red for Labour e.t.c and grey for non party supporters, Believe it or not, not everyone is a Labour Troll though, I am not a Labour Party member, I am what you would call a floating Voter, who has voted for both Liberal democrats and Labour in the past, Although to be fair I am now much more inclined towards Labour đ
Straw man – I never said there weren’t. And more than that, I doubt many people here really mind the presence of such people all that much. It’s the ones who really aren’t “ex Lib Dems” that need to go.
Presumably you’re satisfied now – quite a few people have been aware of what Mark just said for some time.
There’s a need for a sensible balance. Moderation is always going to upset someone and sometimes mistakes will be made, particularly when the site is run by heavily overworked volunteers. But I think the recent moderation policy has improved the site.
@Jim
If an author submitted several articles saying exactly the same thing, then that should be stopped. If someone makes a similar comment a few times, I don’t think anyone is too worried. But if they do so incessently, especially when it’s not really in response to the article or the thread, then I think moderation is appropriate.
The problem, of course, is that none of us – and that includes me – know what Mark and his team are having to deal with. They certainly let’s a lot of hostile stuff through onto the site, so it’d be bizarre if anyone were implying that LDV is stifling all dissent.
And, by the way, my last comment was caught up by auto-moderation.
It was an utterly innocuous comment, but it won’t be shown until a human has time to check it. However, I’m not complaining. If the automoderation software saves us from being plagued by an unreadable deluge, I applaud it.
What puts me off reading the comments threads?
Any attempt at discussing anything gets drowned out by certain people with nothing constructive (ever) to say.
They are unrelentingly negative and full of sneering remarks.
That’s not to say comments should all be self-congratulatory. Far from it. Discussion is good, so is a range of views and ideas. Anything that’s thought-provoking or challenging is fine.
But being told endlessly “you are rubbish, I hate you, you’ve sold out, you’re betraying the voters, Nick Clegg is the anti-Christ….” etc etc isn’t DISCUSSION.
it’s: “I’m here, full of moral superiority and right-ness, to tell you the error of your ways and if you disagree with me, you will lose all your votes.”
It’s being lectured down at. It gets wearing.
Especially when it’s the same people on every thread, because clearly, these people object to EVERYTHING.
@Mark
I am absolutely sure that this is the case. With the greatest respect to you and the difficulty that running a political blog must pose, most sites have some form of spam problem, so it’s not an entirely unique situation (although if your trolls are so incompetent that they cannot master an anonymising proxy, then you are a lucky man).
If there were truly nobody here but sockpuppets and paid-up members – if the abuse problem is so bad that we are all provably noise, and there is no signal left but one bloke posting out of a Labour Party basement – I sincerely hope you’d just close comments and have done with it. Otherwise, perhaps we can respect each others’ bona fides until proven otherwise?
Like most conspiracy theories, there is an element of truth, and yet like most conspiracy theories, it doesn’t appear to be terribly helpful in making sense of the world around us. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’ve got to get meself some more tinfoil before the shops close. It’s the sunspots, y’see.
In political blogs I think there is a fairly direct relationship between the quality of the article and the quality of the comments. If you publish an ‘attack piece’ or an obvious slice of party spin it’s not surprising if the comment thread descends in a slanging match. The author sets the tone to some extent and threads tend to be
of better quality if the author is prepared to engage constructively BTL. For instance, George Kendall’s articles tend to generate interesting debate because he comes across as a thoroughly reasonable chap.
There, I’ve said something constructive. Mandelson will be applying the thumbscrews tonight. I hope you’re happy.
My own little moderating filter consists of scrolling down threads, only stopping to read posts from people who use what appears to be their real name, first name and surname. That makes it quite bearable. I accept that posters can make up pseudonyms and actually, having now posted this post, they probably will.
Drat…
I welcome robust criticism of our policies and actions but ONLY on the basis that all of us from Nick Clegg down to me, a ‘grassroot’ , are decent people who seek to bring about a better society. I will not read beyond the first words of plain abuse so Labour Trolls etc. if you want to be heard ensure you address us on that basis! I would welcome colour coding to designate party supported where applicable and suggest that constructive cricitism be placed first among comments with abusive ones that nevertheless pass moderation be put together in a ghetto at the end,
Of course it’s up to LDV what its moderation policy is. I just wish there wasn’t this pretence that only abusive or off-topic comments are removed.
One recent example – in response to an article entitled “AV is the Answer” I commented that in that case it must have been a very silly question. The comment was removed. Why?
And as for double standards, it seems that while perfectly innocuous posts like this are removed, the leadership loyalists are quite free to call people “trolls” and “haters” for no other reason than that they have a different opinion.
[I don’t suppose this comment will appear for twelve hours or so, judging from past experience.]
I started commenting on this site after the general election.
I voted Lib Dem (after having voted for either Labour or Lib Dem in previous elections) after a persuasive election campaign that was, locally at least, presenting themselves as a left wing alternative to Labour.
To then read this site and realise how many Lib Dems are just embarrassed Tories has persuaded me, along with nearly 5m others, to not waste our votes on them again.
@Mark:
I do sincerely apologise for breaking any rules. However I only resorted to this after my posts became increasingly moderated. Probably for going off topic. Yet what is one to do when you’ve only posted one or two blog posts about the cuts disabled face (that LDs campaigned against), with most of the party in favour. I am sorry for breaking the rules but I am not sorry for my tireless campaigning and trying to get you to engage with this issue to try to pressure your MPs. I am not strong enough to go on a march or protest. The MPs and ministers I’ve written to do either nothing or reply with a letter full of Tory talking points. My vote, based on your May 2010 policies, has been ignored. What else can I do?
And look. This is why I am so angry and heartbroken. I had a feeling and have been terrified it would come to this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/may/15/disability-living-allowance-scope-cuts. We’re now facing increasing violence and abuse from strangers. One would not talk about immigrants the way the media talks about the disabled, but nobody with influence in your party seems to care. So LibDems, with the Tories, have been happy to let the gutter press print distorted and plainly wrong stats (which Lord Freud admitted the DWP was doing) in an effort to soften society up and create resentment towards the most vulnerable in society. Any “liberal” or left-of-centre person should be absolutely disgusted and ashamed for being a part of this. But, of course, nobody really cares. 8,000 sick/disabled people marched in London on Wednesday and yet the media basically ignored it. Still, they gave prominence to the “rally against debt” which had, erm, 350 attendees.
A measure of society is how it treats its weakest. This started under Labour (which was why I switched to LDs) and now it continues (only worse) under the Tories with LD approval. The WCA is not fit for purpose. Disabled and very sick people are being found “fit for work”, yet in the current climate most employers will not hire disabled people and they certainly won’t spend money modifying the workplace to accommodate disabled people. This shames our society.
So, sorry for breaking the rules. It does, however, pale in insignificance to what the weakest in society now face thanks to your compliance. I’ll let you guys get back to patting each other on the backs and referring to people like me, passionate people who care about the weakest, as a “Labour Troll”.
I am one of the people who are not put on. I have never made an offensive blogg, nor have I gone off topic. I believe that I am blocked for two reasons. The first is that my early bloggs were printed in the independent newspaper. The second is that I believe that I made pertinent comments. If all the lib dems want is agreement with coalition, then the voice will wither on the vine. If this is what you want so be it. If not, I too am a voter and would welcome good debate on what is happening. I marched last week with other disabled people in london. This is one of the things you should be disussing., not who is and is not a labour troll. You are a political party and debate is good.
“What you think of Lib Dem Voiceâs comments policy⌠your chance to comment!”
Well, i’m frequently critical and my comments survive, so i have no complaints.
This colour coding idea is not a good idea on a site like this, it may have some merit on a neutral site like UK polling report but here it would serve very little purpose.
@ Anthony Posted 16th May 2011 at 12:33 am
“This colour coding idea is not a good idea on a site like this”
Out of curiosity, why do you think that?
if we claim as a party to be able to moderate the policies of other parties we need to be able to credibly show we are capable of moderating ourselves.
that said I actually enjoy hearing the complaints of opponents – and i think it’s important to prove the party is listening.
so I’d actually like to read a regular round up ‘what our critics say’ post of some of the stronger comments on this site to put them in a single place where they can be seen together in one place and challenged effectively or responded to where appropriate.
and it’ll give a chance to laugh at the trolls!
@squeedle
I don’t consider you a troll, you have an important interest which you are passionate about.
It’s clearly frustrating that there’s not been a good discussion on the topic of disability where light can shine on the full range of issues… so maybe that’s something you’d like to take up and write a submission.
Moderating abuse is fine, but your moderation of off-topic posts really does seem to be used as a stick for silencing dissent.
@chris_sh I think it will be another sidetrack issue where people accuse people of having a certain view just because of the colour they post under, which may or may not be relevant to the issue at hand. Then there will be those who use it to troll or accusations that someone is posting under that colour just to troll, when they aren’t yadda yadda yadda.
(not the same Jim as above)
An article by a regular LDV contributor a few months ago referred to “the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland” and when I commented to correct this, in the politest way possible, the comments were rejected. I doubt I was the only one. This put me off commenting again until now, but I hope you will take note.
Moderation is only part of an editorial policy.
It would seem from matt’s posting that part of the present editorial policy is to restrain Lib Dem members from being allowed to publicly criticise the leadership while allowing such criticism from the odd Labour Troll or Toryboy who strays this way. Yet, arguably, another part of the editorial policy, such as the recent Chris Fox posting being included for discussion rather than for information on the public area is far more damaging to Lib Dem interests than anything put in by the odd member.
The choice of editorial content is fair enough because the site belongs to those who operate it. It is, however, a peculiarly-shaped version of Lib Dem interests and points of view which I would expect to provoke the creation of another site, maybe called ‘Lib Dems’ real voice’?, if anyone has the time, nous and computer savvy so to do. I would personally prefer there to be only one site, with a wider Lib Dem viewpoint than is presently usually (not always, to be fair) represented here.
@ Anthony Posted 16th May 2011 at 12:25 pm
Yep – makes sense to me, I hadn’t thought of it that way before – ta
Jim: I’ve taken a look and your comment was trapped as spam by our spam filters by mistake. Sorry about that – I’ve now released it.
Pat: You have frequently gone off topic or posted insults. I’ll admit I stopped counting when checking through the records and getting to 30 such comments from you, as I think that’s more than enough to count as “frequently” đ
Tony: Sorry, but you’ve got the moderation policy wrong (and, as you may have noticed from my replies to some people in this thread taking at face value what some people say has been their experience is not always a route to accuracy).
As a Suggestion, why not display comments that are awaiting moderation, entitled “awaiting moderation” and comments that are rejected or deleted, stating that they have been removed for breeching forum policy.
It would be quite clear then too everyone. just how many people and which posters in particular are being auto-moderated and/or having their comments denied.
I don’t think anybody is disputing the hard work and dedication put in by the LDV team, it is just the “impartiality” that has come into question the last few weeks.
Alternatively Mark, stick to what you have been doing; the efforts to moderate have improved the site hugely. No-one with any interest in the issues wants a return to
a few months ago when the place was swamped with drivel and a chore to read it. If I wanted Lib Dem hatred, there are other prominent political blogs on which to find it.
No-one with any interest in the issues wants a return to a few months ago when the place was swamped with drivel and a chore to read it. If I wanted Lib Dem hatred, there are other prominent political blogs on which to find it.
Maybe it would be better to focus on correcting the sudden ‘hatred’ people have for the Lib Dems rather than simply sweeping it under the carpet because you find it a ‘chore to read’ .
If you are dog tired of dissent then i dread to think how you will feel if you meet real voters on the doorstep.
I enjoyed the moderation as it was and wish that I could engage in similar robust debates again on this site, but too many have been hounded or moderated away.
I believe that overzealous moderation comes into effect during topical, popular debates on this site. I agree with Matt that during such times, having to wait hours for your comment to appear means that you cannot participate in the debate and you are (albeit indirectly) politically censored.
My suggestion would be a reader focused moderation policy. Similar to what they use at the BBC and other prominent sites. Simply allow through all comments that do not clearly break the comment policy and allow the reader to click or send an email to complain if they think a post crosses the line.
With obvious exceptions such as profanity and personal attacks , the reader can be trusted to decide for themselves if something is or isnât worth reading. Others have said that they don’t read certain comments for a variety of reasons. That is their right. There are certain people here whose posts I rarely read , but that does not mean I believe they should be censored.
LDV can be a focal point for serious and robust debate regarding the party, where experienced campaigners can put us less qualified members of the public straight and at least try to defend the actions of the party. Or it can be an echo chamber of loyal support, oblivious and blind to the current public perception of the party.
You already have your echo chamber, it is called the members forum….
I may just be one person but I have voted Lib Dem all my life and surprise surprise , I am still here, reading the articles and the comments. I am angry, I am upset, I am very unhappy at the party but I am open to persuasion by solid and logical debate.
I am not giving up on the party I have voted for all my life just because Clegg et al have formed a coalition with the Tories. I will continue to fight to get the party back.
Don’t run from your enemy, convert them… If you have no appetite for dissent then you will be of little use in 2015
First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win . Mahatma Gandhi.
It’s the one place where you cannot ignore the poeople who voted for you. Buring your head in the sand and closing it down is not going to make the mess you have made go away or make the coalition any more popular. Self praise is no praise, its just propaganda! Sorry, Auld Nick, its just not going to wash – you make the misktae of your career and it’s time you faced up to it for the good of the party. Actions have consequences!