Alistair Carmichael has taken the first step to defending the election petition filed against him by filing a formal “answer” with the court.
The answers make clear that he is opposing the petition, and that there has been no breach of section 106 of the Representation of the People Act 1983.
He argues that he did not make a false statement of fact in relation to the personal character or conduct of a candidate, before or during an election, for the purpose of affecting the return of any candidate at the election and that therefore the petition is “irrelevant” and that there is no basis to grant the orders sought by the petitioners.
You can read a redacted version of his answers here.
Alistair Carmichael also has to face an investigation by the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner.
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32 Comments
I hope that all the proceeding go as well as they can . He is a good man and the attacks on him seem unusually vindictive.
I am a former lawyer but feel that all the proceedings are being brought on for entirely naked political reasons.
Are all Parliamentary documents this confusing? Anyway, I completely agree with Carmichael. His false statements were with regard to whether he leaked the memo, not as to the personal character or conduct of Sturgeon. This is not against the law. Although he shouldn’t have lied, everyone does. A lie is not enough to expel someone from office and if it was few politicians would be left, the SNP included. I mean just last week Salmond said Kennedy was a nationalist.
Maybe we should put together an election petition regarding the SNPs alledged disgraceful behaviour in Ross, Skye and Lochebar.
Caroline, when he lied to the public, was he doing that for nakedly political reasons himself?
@AnDuineGruamach Lying about the source of a memo you believe to be true is one thing. Setting up a petition to fire the perpetrator and replace him with one of your own MPs is quite another.
A party spokesman said, “The leak was not from a Liberal Democrat and that is the end of the matter.” (http://www.thenational.scot/politics/libdems-deny-leaking-memo-claiming-nicola-sturgeon-wants-david-cameron-as-pm.1852)
Nick Clegg said, “Alistair Carmichael’s been absolutely clear; of course, he didn’t leak them.” (http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/wider-political-news/clegg-brands-cameron-very-silly-for-playing-detective-in-blaming-lib-d.122754164)
I find it difficult not to condemn Carmichael. He told a barefaced lie, apparently to further ends that can only be described as political. If he were to resign and we were to lose Orkney and Shetland: well, so be it. We must have greater integrity than our opponents if we are to rebuild Liberalism as a force in British politics.
When An Duine Gruamach asked his question, he might be doing so for ‘naked political reasons’, but the question was a legitimate one.
ThomasS puts forward the arguement that it was alright for Carmichael to lie to the press and therefore to the public at large because ‘everyone does’. Surely one of the reasons politics is held in such low esteem is because – in the view of the public – the word of politicians was not to be trusted. I don’t know about anyone else but I want those at the front of my party to be above knowingly stating a falsehood unless it was in the national interest.
Finally, the mood music coming from some is that we must support Carmichael in order to keep the constituency of Orkney and Shetland. I support Simon Thorleys statement, If we lose the constituency then so be it, at least we cannot be accused of behaving expediently in order to gain political advantage.
Most casual observers of politics I know say the same thing to me `everyone knows that Nicola Sturgeon wanted the Conservatives to win. It suits her purposes`. That seems to be the perception anyhow.
I really don’t think there’ll be any hiding place for the SNP from now on. The gloves are off.
Alistair did wrong but this petition is calling for a disproportionate punishment for a politically motivated reason.
Alistair has already sacrificed some of his ministerial salary and will no doubt be given a sanction by the standards commission. Is resignation really an appropriate punishment for such a misdemeanor?
Copied from here – http://lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.co.uk/
“Put most simply, he is arguing that he was lying purely for political reasons as the Secretary of State for Scotland, not as the humble Mr Alistair Carmichael, prospective parliamentary candidate trying to win a tough seat in Orkney and Shetland. Like a capo di tutti capi who puts a bullet in your kidney, he alleges, it was nothing personal. And in a single bound, free. If the courts accept this argument, section 106 of the Representation of the People Act does not apply. No illegal practice. No vacated election. No by-election. And Carmichael stays on. This is a Yes, but defence.
…. “the statements made by [Carmichael] during the interview with Channel 4 news were not made for the purpose of affecting the return of any candidate at the election.” Another Yes, but defence. I may have lied about leaking like a rusty colander, but I did not do so in order to hoodwink the voters of Shetland or Orkney into returning me.
It is an interesting test case to be sure. Its also interest how he is also bringing the rest of the party and his leader at the time into it as well.
Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that when he authorised the memo to be leaked, he believed it to be entirely accurate – that the First Minister of Scotland was saying something in private and was saying the opposite (that she wanted Ed Miliband as PM) in public.
I can understand why he thought there was a public interest in leaking it. I don’t actually agree with him having done so because I don’t believe Nicola would ever have said that and said so at the time, but I understand why he did.
I think that the time to stop persecuting Alistair was some weeks ago. He knows he screwed up but he’s a fundamentally decent human being.
Certainly not, Daniel, when Alex Salmond didn’t resign over the non-existent EU legal advice.
Caron Lindsay 10th Jun ’15 – 1:13am………….Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that when he authorised the memo to be leaked, he believed it to be entirely accurate – that the First Minister of Scotland was saying something in private and was saying the opposite (that she wanted Ed Miliband as PM) in public……………I can understand why he thought there was a public interest in leaking it………………………
If he was that moral why did he consistently lie about the leak? Why did he allow an investigation to ‘run its course’ and find it WAS him before admitting any responsibility?
Over the “SNP harassing Charles Kennedy” issue members are demanding ‘resignations and dismissals’ but when we “judge our own” by different standards we lose the moral high ground. We have just seen the results of disregarding the “No more broken promises” statement; let us not make the same mistake again…
@Caron Lindsay
Also worth noting that the enquiry into the matter found that the memo was, in effect, not intentionally misleading and the civil servant did think it had been an accurate account.
ATF 10th Jun ’15 – 7:44am …@Caron Lindsay….Also worth noting that the enquiry into the matter found that the memo was, in effect, not intentionally misleading and the civil servant did think it had been an accurate account………………..
The original memo itself warned that part of the official’s conversation with the consul general may have been “lost in translation”. The very fact that that the civil servant felt bound to insert that caveat should have put its validity in doubt…..
However, what has happened, has happened. IMO rehashing threads on a subject that, as we are not prepared to take further action on, is unwise….
@expats
Fair points – certainly not excusing AC’s actions, they were simply wrong – but I err on the side of not thinking it is resignable matter; would be a damanging precedent as leaking, can so often be, essential to stopping a greater ill.
It’s a very simple matter. Mr Carmichael lied about a very serious issue. He lied to the general public; he lied to his constituents. His constituents have every right to ask that he subject himself to an election. It’s not about ‘punishment,’ and it’s not about the SNP. It’s a simple question of honour, integrity and basic honesty.
Some of the vulgar apoletics here reveal just how far Lib dem members are from both reality and ordinary morality. If the Party wants to regain any credibilty a major culture change is clearly required.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of this affair, there is clear evidence from yesterday’s TNS Scotland poll that it’s already impacting LibDem support – down to 3%:
http://www.tns-bmrb.co.uk/news/support-for-snp-rises-again-ahead-of-2016-holyrood-election
The longer this goes on the more damage is being done to the LibDems prospects in Holyrood 2016. I think the disclosure that Alistair informed Tavish Scott about his role on the 10th May is particularly damaging. At what point did Willie Rennie become aware of Alistair’s role?
While we are talking election petitions, now is as good a time as any to remind the world that Phil Woolas was never prosecuted for the clear breaches of the election law which were detailed by the judges at the special hearing in Saddleworth which Nick Thornby and I sat through in the gallery. The Crown Prosecution Service decided, in its great wiadon(sic) that Mr Woolas had ‘suffered enough’ through losing his parliamentary seat.This enabled Mr Woolas to embark upon a fresh career as a Parliamentary lobyist. One might contrast his treatment with that of Chris Huhne, who suffered rather more for what I would think was a fractionally less-serious matter.
Intriguingly, Mr Woolas’ agent, Joe Fitxpatrick, who was responsible for the actual leaflets concerned (and previous ones about other Lib Dem candidates) suffered not at all in those hearings and was formally cautioned in respect of possible prosecution by the judges in respect of his involvement in the vicious and false content of the leaflets. He, too, was not prosecuted by the CPS. I suppose one might argue that his failure to get himself elected to the council when he made the obvious transition from Oldham Labour to UKIP. 🙁
@Caron Lindsay: the fact that Salmond didn’t resign doesn’t mean that Carmichael shouldn’t. The argument from Bruce and some others that ‘eveyone does it’ – well, everyone shouldn’t. It’s not impossibly naive to feel that politicians shouldn’t lie; they are in a uniquely privileged position, and with that authority comes a greater moral obligation, as far as I’m concerned.
Wearing my legal hat for a minute it is clear that the only beneficiaries of this “punt” will indeed be the lawyers ?!!
I know little about electoral law, and even less about the Scottish legal system, but frankly I would be amazed if there is any prospect of this case “succeeding” ? ! If members of the public have £65 K or whatever it was for crowd funding for such a legal action it is a shame it was not donated to charity. This seems to be a matter for the parliamentary authorities to deal with. I know that the vast majority of behaviour is now criminalised, and I do not condone whatever Alistair has or has not done but if Telling a Lie were to become a “crime” then the lawyers would indeed be rubbing their hands with glee !!!
The issue of whether Alistair Carmichael should resign his seat – or be hounded out of it – is different from the question of whether he did wrong. He did do wrong. That unattributable leaks are common in politics and often obviously come from a minister or an aide to a minister does not excuse one wrong act of this sort. But consider what would be generally held to be the correct action if he WAS still a minister. I’m pretty sure he would be expected to resign as a minister but not to resign his seat. If it isn’t a seat-resigning issue in those circumstances, it isn’t now.
The legislation is intended to deal with candidates who publish slurs and other lies against opponents. That could well fit the SNP in Charles Kennedy’s seat, but never Alistair Carmichael in this case.
I suppose he will either win or lose, which to some extent will draw a line. If he lost, it would make an interesting precedent.
Simon Banks 10th Jun ’15 – 2:09pm
The legislation is intended to deal with candidates who publish slurs and other lies against opponents. That could well fit the SNP in Charles Kennedy’s seat, but never Alistair Carmichael in this case.
Surely the point of law is that Nicola Sturgeon was not a candidate in Orkney & Shetland or anywhere else – hence the law on recall as I understand it doesn’t apply. The SNP activists are merely vexatious litigants. Carmichael is certainly having a hard time – but he brought it on himself unless he believed the contents of the leak to be true. It’s always open to Nicola to instruct M’Learned friends….. but no sign of that….. nor likely to be…..
Perhaps AC ought to reflect on Clem Attlee’s comment, ‘A period of silence from you would be welcome’. Same advice goes to Lembit after his latest bit of inappropriate self-indulgence in the press.
I think that this matter is much ado about very little. People seem to agree that Mr. Carmichael has been a good MP for a number of years. Crazy things happen dring elections. Did tthe rmer hrt anyone? I dont think so. Dose the rumor involve money? Again I dont think so. I have been monitoring K politics since 2009. I believe there have been a number of major scandals involving molestation, domestic violence and financial concerns. Many o those involved suffered nothing but brief humiliation and are still in Parliament. Why are you cruifing Mr. Carmichael who was guilty only of poor judgement? I wish to make a full disclosure statement. My father and maternal grand father both were Orcadians (North Ronldsay) I sm an American who lives near Chicago and do know something abouy political scandals. Mary Tulloch
did the rumor hurt anyone? I think not
The question of whether Mr Carmichael knew or did not know that the contents of the memo were questionable would only be relevant if there were evidence that he cared one way or the other about its truth. His haste to release it without investigating it beforehand suggests otherwise.
It seems that Carmichael lied to his party leader, Nick Clegg, about the leak.
Which is why Nick Clegg issued a statement that Carmichael had not leaked the information.
Lying to your party leader is not good, especially when you are a cabinet minister. It also then caused Nick Clegg to repeat the lie. The new party leader can not now trust Carmichael to tell them the truth.
Carmichael should be expelled from the party. By not expelling Hancock at an early stage the Lib Dem party reputation was harmed. The same is happening with Carmichael. The party should come down hard on those damaging the party reputation and integrity.
lets rfemember the head of the civil service has said he stands by that memorandum and sturgeon was speaking english i presume
@David Raw
“Surely the point of law is that Nicola Sturgeon was not a candidate in Orkney & Shetland or anywhere else – hence the law on recall as I understand it doesn’t apply.”
The petitioners’ case is that he lied about himself, not Sturgeon. Whether that falls foul of the Representation of the People Act appears to be open to interpretation.
Ironically, if Carmichael manages to beat this and there is no by-election I believe this will cost the Lib Dems the seat in Holyrood next year and that he will lose it in 2020 anyway.
However, if the SNP win and oust him they’ll probably be more sympathy for the Lib Dems and less for the SNP who are starting to make themselves seen as bullies.
Best thing I think is for Carmichael to stand down and force a by-election. I believe if he did this the Lib Dems could (in those circumstances) win the by-election and win the seat again at Holyrood). But I believe the Lib Dems are far to risk adverse to do this.
Worst thing in the long run for the Lib Dems I believe would be Carmichael managing to hang-on without a by-election.