Engaging with disgruntled Leave voters

Beside the ongoing drama around Westminster, there’s an urgent task to be done among those who voted to leave the EU and are beginning to regret it. This is crucial for the country, and wise for us as well.

I’m thinking of those taken in by false “promises” — there isn’t an extra £350 million a week for the NHS, or an end to free movement of people, Brexit doesn’t mean an end to fishing quotas, and “taking back control” now sounds like a joke. They were already alienated and this is not helping.

We’re hearing stories of Brexit hitting places that voted for it: Lush moving from Poole, Forterra mothballing plants in Accrington and Claughton. Vacancies and job prospects are down. We need a more constructive response than a brutal “You voted for it”.

If Labour were acting as a proper opposition rather than embroiled in in civil war, they would be highlighting further betrayals from the Tories: most startling is the abandoning of plans to move to a budget surplus. If it were to be so quickly abandoned now, why was it clung to for so long despite fuelling misery for millions? How many voted Leave because of that pain?

The best hope for avoiding Brexit is pressure from people who voted Leave and now fear the consequences, giving the government the chance to seem to have changed its mind after listening. But many of these are already people who feel excluded and assume politicians will ignore them. With Labour otherwise engaged, it falls to us to mobilise them before Article 50 is invoked.

The divisions exposed by the referendum shouldn’t surprise anyone who’s been door-knocking. Traditional socialism has failed, and we need something else.

The preamble to the LibDem constitution says we exist “exist to build and safeguard a fair, free and open society, in which we seek to balance the fundamental values of liberty, equality and community, and in which no one shall be enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity.” That has powerful resonances with where we now are, and is a brilliant place from which to begin to engage with those conned into voting Leave. Even more sharply, freedom from enslavement by poverty is a good place to start the conversation with people who are financially excluded, and a change from what people are used to.

There are European resonances: the EU is there to improve life for all Europeans, and reversing Brexit is in the best interests of many of those who voted Leave out of desperation.

At an idealistic level engaging those who now feel betrayed has powerful echoes of Nick Clegg’s resignation speech, talking of “British liberalism, that fine, noble tradition that believes we are stronger together and weaker apart is needed more than ever before.”

If we are about to head into a snap election, then connecting with these people will be really important, both to minimise resentment in LibDem-held constituencies that voted Leave, and to build support among those we need to win over in seats we hope to gain.

The crucial thing is to enable the voices of those feeling increasingly angry or dis-spirited to be heard — both the 48%, and those conned into voting Leave.

Can we go out and talk with people, and organise marches and petitions, to mobilise pressure to abandon the folly of Brexit, and build a better UK at the heart of a reforming European Union?

* Mark Argent was the candidate in Hertford and Stortford in the 2017 General Election

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36 Comments

  • A salutory lesson on referenda; last week’s encounter with a Brexiter.
    On a street stall in Cheltenham Ladt Saturday, a lady came up to me and informed me that she was Welsh and worked for the NHS. She told me that she had voted to leave the EU and of course, I asked her why.
    She said it was because of Neil Kinnock and his family who had made a good living out of the EU. She then said how much she disliked the fact that he had a police officer stationed outside his door. She was quite adamant that these were her reasons for voting out. I wonder how many others voted this way to have a pop at the political elite?

  • Can’t work out if this article puts you in the bargaining stage, or if you are hopelessly locked in a perpetual denial stage.?

  • Kim Spence-Jones 17th Jul '16 - 11:20am

    It’s not useful (nor accurate) to talk about people who were “taken in” by Leave’s lies. Most leavers I’ve talked to have good reasons for their vote. The problem is that their model of how the world is and how it works is limited (an issue not restricted to the leave camp, of course). Leaving the EU won’t even come close to fixing the things people want fixed, either because they were actually the fault not of Brussels but of Westminster, or because we’ll have less leverage as an independent country than we had as a leading member of EU.

    The first thing we have to do is to acknowledge that most leavers chose that option for good and valid reasons. Then we move on to addressing their concerns directly. With luck, if we start to fix stuff, the pressure to leave will fade.

    An important element in this plan is to support the reform of the EU. An end to selfish “good for UK, bad for the rest of EU” demands, and instead a focus on “good for the whole EU” issues.

  • Leave The EU 17th Jul '16 - 11:35am

    @Kim – I will assume you are familiar with Tony Benn’s “rules”:

    “What power have you got?”

    “Where did you get it from?”

    “In whose interests do you use it?”

    “To whom are you accountable?”

    “How do we get rid of you?”

    Clearly the EU is found wanting – and I will certainly look at how the UK can be improved as well.

    All the best.

  • I am not sure I agree with you, Kim. I believe it is important to know why people voted the way they did. Otherwise, how do we address their concerns? Those who voted to leave believed that their reasons – on the day – were valid, I agree. My belief is that many votes were cast for out, by those who feel alienated from the way politics is now. The lady I spoke to voiced that in her discussion with me. Neil Kinnick was her way of voicing that alienation. She was from S Wales and saw what was happening from that context. Brexit won’t answer her concerns. There is something much deeper that needs to be addressed.

  • but aren’t we just pussy-footing around here? we all know people who voted for brexit for the strangest of reasons (my favourites being my own mother’s ‘because all the shops are closing down’ and my neighbour’s ‘because all the foreigners are stopping me getting a doctor’s appointment when i want one [our town has virtually no newcomers’] ).
    I want to say to them, ‘you voted for this, now learn some lessons about democracy’ – otherwise aren’t we being remiss in seemingly condoning such peevish behaviour?

  • Stevan Rose 17th Jul '16 - 1:10pm

    *No-oneas taken in by £350m a week for the NHS. No-one.
    *Brexit can mean exit from the CFP, I hope it does.
    *Taking back control… could mean absolutely anything. Probably means EU migration and I imagine quotas will meet that one.
    *Lush are not planning on losing any jobs and are clearly sniffing too much of their own soap if they think it’s a good idea to move production of its expansion to a higher labour cost country before knowing whether we’re going for EFTA/EEA no change.
    *Brick works being mothballed because of construction slump possibility. Well if we start to fix the lack of affordable housing by building enough homes there won’t be a slump.
    *New Chancellor, new situation, new surplus policy, no emergency panic budget.
    *People weren’t conned into voting Leave; this is an excuse used by Remainers who cannot see the genuine issues that need addressing and the poor Remain campaign led by people only lukewarm on remaining. And don’t forget Project Fear, founded on worst case scenario on steroids.
    *It’s unlikely we’re heading for a snap election. The Fixed-term Parliaments Act did not have a clause permitting an early election when a governing party changes leader. It is there to prevent a party using the choice of election date to its political advantage. May would only want an early election if it was definitely in her favour so opposition parties would be daft to agree.
    *Can we stop defining this party as inextricably linked to a lost cause. Let’s not march, petition, and spend all our waking moments trying to cling onto the past. Instead let’s work out Liberal Democrat solutions to all those things people genuinely see as an issue with EU membership including infrastructure and services capacity, housing, migrant benefits, wage deflation, unbalanced and unsustainable EU migration (yes, we do if we ever want to win more than a few council seats in middle class areas). And then we link these to EU membership, unBrexit or Rejoin. People will vote for a party with a coherent vision of decent quality affordable housing for everyone, with integrated healthcare and transport links planned in. They will not vote for a bunch of Lib Dems with placards telling them they are all idiots for being conned when they don’t think they were. They will vote Tory or UKIP in the absence of Labour.

  • Stevan Rose 17th Jul ’16 – 1:10pm……..*No-one was taken in by £350m a week for the NHS. No-one……………..
    *Lush are not planning on losing any jobs and are clearly sniffing too much of their own soap if they think it’s a good idea to move production of its expansion to a higher labour cost country before knowing whether we’re going for EFTA/EEA no change………….

    My next door neighbour, and his wife, believed it…That makes ‘two’…

    As for Lush.. One has to admire your certainty. A man who owns a company with almost £0.5 Billion turnover, increases profits every year and employs 1400 people in his Poole business clearly knows a lot less than you

  • Jayne Mansfield 17th Jul '16 - 1:35pm

    @ Flo Clucas,
    I think many of us spent an inordinate amount of time seeking information so that we could make a rational decision. I am grateful to Liberal Democrat Voice for the arguments that appeared on here amongst other sources.

    However, the reality for me and others of my acquaintance was that we are happy living in a representative democracy and we ended up feeling angry that an unnecessary plebiscite was decided upon, to help David Cameron out of his difficulties with the UKIP wing of his party.

    It has been a form of decision making that we the electorate should not take the blame for. It was the role of our MPs to make the decision. Sheer cowardice meant that they tried to distance themselves from the decision, so that if it all goes badly wrong, we will be told that the decision was ‘ the will of the people’.

    I am supposedly retired, so I have the time to check things out. Also I have a family who discuss these things around the table, amongst my children there is a research scientist and city workers who provide services to the EU, (now mugging up on their French and German).

    There are people who admit that they make a major decision on frivolous grounds, but many were desperate for unbiased information. Instead, the campaigns were disgraceful more so on one side than the other.

    Is it really such a shock that some made the decision on frivolous grounds, in ignorance or that they were swayed by propaganda?

    Please, put the blame where it belongs, on David Cameron.

  • >*No-one was taken in by £350m a week for the NHS. No-one……………..

    …and my aunt and uncle, and a woman I know who voted Leave because she couldn’t get a GP appointment in under a fortnight. That makes ‘five’…

  • Stevan Rose 17th Jul '16 - 4:13pm

    “and my aunt and uncle, and a woman I know who voted Leave because she couldn’t get a GP appointment in under a fortnight.”

    And my parents voted Leave partly due to not being able to get timely GP and hospital appointments but they blamed uncontrolled migration, not any expectation of extra NHS cash for their decision – they had wisely listened to the daily repetition, acknowledged by Leave, that it was a gross figure. Still I guess there are extremely gullible people who do believe what is written on the side of a bus. So technically I’m wrong. I suspect not so wrong that it would have made any difference, especially when balanced against those taken in by Osbourne’s threat of an emergency punishment budget.

    @expats. I don’t know the future shape of Brexit and neither does the boss of Lush. The current uncertainty is the point. Unless he knows a lot more than our new PM, and her trio of Brexit muppets. Which I doubt. Sorry, I don’t automatically judge the opinion of a businessman and take it as gospel by the apparent value of their shares. I wouldn’t take advice on pensions from multi-billionaire Philip Green either.

    What I do know is that the fall in the value of sterling means the goods my company manufactures in the UK from UK sourced materials where possible are now substantially cheaper to our US and Australian customers. Some of our materials come from Italy originally but if we have to increase prices slightly for domestic customers we’ll switch to more British materials which are higher quality but are now far more competitive compared to the Italian (the differential has narrowed). In terms of my business, despite my personal Remain views, Brexit is an opportunity not a threat that potentiality could create British jobs and revive traditional skills.

  • Mark Goodrich 17th Jul '16 - 4:22pm

    For more than anecdote, I would point people again to the polling carried out by Lord Ashcroft on why people voted Leave. In short, the top answers were a feeling that they thought the country should run its own affairs and curbing immigration. These are not irrational reasons (although not very liberal). It is also worth reading Eric Kaufman on the striking correlation between favouring capital punishment and voting Leave. In short, the Leave vote is very much a cultural phenomenon and many of these people won’t be persuadable for many years, if at all.

    That said, there are some waverers who are probably regretting their vote and will do so more in the future. We need to reach out to them but also to the young who overwhelming voted to stay in (and turned out rather more than first thought). Every day that passes brings more of these people on to the electoral register.

  • Stevan Rose @expats. I don’t know the future shape of Brexit and neither does the boss of Lush. The current uncertainty is the point. Unless he knows a lot more than our new PM, and her trio of Brexit muppets. Which I doubt. Sorry, I don’t automatically judge the opinion of a businessman and take it as gospel by the apparent value of their shares. I wouldn’t take advice on pensions from multi-billionaire Philip Green either…………….

    What the boss of Lush does have is ‘business acumen’ the old adage of follow the money is usually a good one…I might not take Green’s advice but, had I followed his actions on BHS, I’d’ve known not to expect too much on a pension….As for our PM; she wanted to say in… regarding the muppets; they’d have trouble finding their backsides with both hands…,’nuff said’….

  • “What the boss of Lush does have is ‘business acumen’ the old adage of follow the money is usually a good one…”
    Yes, and James Dyson has a fair bit of business acumen too, and strongly promoted Leave. Or does James Dyson count as one of the uneducated, knuckle dragging, feeble minded, easily confused,… muppets.?
    Here’s the thing,.. 17 million muppets wanted Leave,.. 16 million muppets wanted Remain. Your muppets lost,… It’s called democracy, and it’s an alien concept to high minded liberals,… but you need to get a grip, and get over it.?

  • J Dunn….Your muppets lost,… It’s called democracy, and it’s an alien concept to high minded liberals,… but you need to get a grip, and get over it.?…….

    Considering that the ‘Outers’ whinged, schemed and lied for over 40 years to get THEIR way it seems a bit much to berate ‘Remainers’ after just a couple of weeks…

  • “….it seems a bit much to berate ‘Remainers’ after just a couple of weeks…”
    O.K. let’s talk about the relative I.Q of Remainers v Leavers.?
    We keep being told by liberals that Leavers are basically, just too stupid, to be allowed to vote. Cause we dumb folks prove time and again, that we’re just way too dumb, to handle democracy.?
    But a few days ago I overheard one girl, about 19, who declared she had voted Remain and was sad at the result. She said she liked her holidays, and phoned her mum once or twice a day when she was away. She declared that the EU were making mobile phone calls cheaper, and that is why she voted Remain.
    So millions of 19 year olds died in French mud to preserve sovereignty, but this 19 year old was happy to hand it unquestioningly to a bunch of megalomaniac EU clowns, for the price of a cheap mobile call to her mum.?????
    Seriously …? If that is indicative of the quality of Remains ‘snowflake generation’ I.Q., I am so deeply grateful that I’m knuckle dragging stupid, along with 17 million other proud fellow muppets?.

  • @ J Dunn “So millions of 19 year olds died in French mud to preserve sovereignty”,

    Apart from the ungrammatical use of ‘So’ to start a sentence, here we go again……. Exaggeration, misleading statistics, and misinformation..

    1. As it happens, I knew over twenty First War survivors back in the 1980’s and 1990’s as part of a research project. Every one of them without fail welcomed more European co-operation and were suspicious of the nationalist notions of sovereignty and aggrandisement which led to the First World War.

    2. In the First War, the total number of British dead of ALL ages (from 14 to 65) was 887,858 according to the records of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. Yes, every 19 year old death was one too many – but millions of 19 year olds died ?

    3. Without being too picky, the biggest amount of mud was in Belgium rather than in France.

    I guess my old friends from the Pals would ask “Haven’t you got somewhere else to play, Sonny ?” – or more likely something a bit more choice.

  • The problem with all these article is they tend not to acknowledge the possibility that a far greater number of people voted remain from the fear of economic collapse than those who regret voting Leave. Does voting remain really indicate a commitment to the ideals of the EU or caution and If the sky doesn’t fall in will Remain vote hold up? It could actually go down as Brexit becomes entrenched.

  • Leave The EU 17th Jul '16 - 8:35pm

    “Does voting remain really indicate a commitment to the ideals of the EU or caution” – nice one Glenn.

  • You can selectively pick news stories that appear to support the Remain argument that the end of the world is nigh. But then you read the news stories and it turns out there is no intention to cut British jobs. So it is evidence of nothing. You can point out brick makers mothballing plants for fear of a construction downturn when a sensible solution to unaffordable housing points to a boom. So more housing policy than EU policy. You can pitch one successful businessman against another and choose the one that supports the view you already hold. You can argue grammar and statistics and it is irrelevant to the underlying point being made. A major problem with the Remain campaign was making dodgy arguments that could easily be countered. We lost. I don’t recall ever agreeing with J Dunn before and I’ll try not to make a habit of it, but needing to get a grip and get over it is sound advice.

    That doesn’t mean giving up. It does means addressing the real reasons people voted Leave, and, hint, it wasn’t because there are 17 million gullible idiots facing off against only 16 million sensible brainy people. And when you’ve got solutions that stand up to robust scrutiny then you go back to the people and ask for a mandate to reverse Brexit or Rejoin. Trying to scare people didn’t work (well enough) and it won’t work now so forget that tactic. And there is always a risk that even with great solutions we won’t get that mandate so we also need so you also need to have a positive approach to a longer term future outside the EU. We do not need to be known as the sulky party while May and her cohorts shout about opportunities and bright futures.

  • Jayne Mansfield 17th Jul '16 - 11:21pm

    @ John Dunn,
    I seem to remember a time when James Dyson was a Euro enthusiast and got very grumpy when the UK government chose to keep the pound.

  • @Jayne Mansfield. I seem to recall a whole party committed to joining the Euro and then changing its mind in 2008 and the reasons have parallels with the current situation. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/sep/14/liberaldemocrats.eu

  • J Dunn 17th Jul ’16 – 7:13pm…………..O.K. let’s talk about the relative I.Q of Remainers v Leavers.?…………

    Why? That remark is not just raising a ‘strawman’; it’s an army of ‘scarecrows’….Are all those supporting Donald Trump of low IQ? Are UKIP voters all ‘knuckle draggers’….
    Believing in simplistic solutions is not just the prerogative of the stupid; it is more akin to buying a ‘Euro Lottery Ticket’ where ‘faith overcomes reason’….
    I’m sure those following the promise of £350m for the NHS would have rationalised their decision as “£350m is a lot of extra money and some WILL go to the NHS”….. Everyone knows an individual immigrant but it is the plural term that arouses resentment…..

    As for your dragging the ‘brave dead’ to support your argument???????? My father was gassed in WW1; my wife’s grandfather is still there. A Europe without your kind of rhetoric might have prevented both outcomes…

  • James Dyson ?

    He’s the ‘posh’ public schoolboy who re-located his factory from Wiltshire to the the Far East with the loss of about 800 jobs. No doubt there were ‘labour cost savings and “tax advantages”.

    He was also one of the twenty 100 FTSE bosses who wanted to join the Euro a few years ago…… and got a knighthood from Blair for ????? Clearly a man to be relied on.

  • “Does voting remain really indicate a commitment to the ideals of the EU” Glenn (17th Jul ’16 – 8:32pm)

    A very true comment, the real problem seems to be the Brexit fanatics who are trying to treat the Leave vote to mean more than it does. Which is why my take on the result is no change and to retain the status quo, thus we remain in the EU, but oppose further integration that either reduces “sovereignty” and/or disadvantages those who do not wish to participate. My feeling is that by staying in, we actually stand a better chance of creating a much-improved status and relationship for the EEA members, as many EU members decide to pause on the “ever closer union” and in so doing create the two-tier EU we have been wanting…

  • Expats.
    The EU is just under 23 years old, 1/11/93. Most of the major changes occurred between 1999 and 2007. It has zero to do with either world war and with its anti democratic centralised indifference to economic of hardship and naïve commitment to imposing supranational citizenship on member states has arguably done more to rebirth wide scale discontent in Europe than anything since the 1930s.
    And talking about strawmen. Donald Trump is an American candidate in an American election and has no baring on the EU either. IMO some in the remain camp guilty of seeing what they want to see as they accuse those in the Leave camp of being.

  • Peter Watson 18th Jul '16 - 11:37am

    @David Raw “He’s the ‘posh’ public schoolboy who re-located his factory from Wiltshire to the the Far East with the loss of about 800 jobs. No doubt there were ‘labour cost savings and “tax advantages”.”
    Out of interest, which bit of that is something that Lib Dems oppose on principle? I’ve seen plenty of posh public schoolboys running the party and there seems to be a prominent wing (not unrelated to the posh public schoolboys) that favours globalisation and more freedom for businesses.

  • Peter Watson 18th Jul '16 - 11:49am

    @David Raw
    Apologies if my post above comes across as rude.
    One problem I have always had with this site is that there seem to be plenty of Lib Dems (such as yourself) with whom I agree in a party with which I no longer agree.

  • Glenn 18th Jul ’16 – 10:22am………Expats…………It has zero to do with either world war and with its anti democratic centralised indifference to economic of hardship and naïve commitment to imposing supranational citizenship on member states has arguably done more to rebirth wide scale discontent in Europe than anything since the 1930s………

    We can agree on your first sentence but, regarding your second… I have lived/worked in Europe (as my name implies) and, apart from the UK, I have experienced NO wide scale discontent with the EU…Germans/French/Italians seem to have no trouble seeing themselves as German/French/Italian and as members of the EU….

  • @ Peter Watson I don’t regard you as at all rude, Peter. I agree with your diagnosis. The trouble with a small party is that some folk are too easily impressed and grateful if the folk you mention show any interest…… an upbringing in West Yorkshire and subsequent domicile in Scotland made me immune to that.

    The ultimate posh boys (D.C. et G.O.) led some of ours like lemmings, but they have been shown up to be ultimately incompetent now. Too much whiff and not enough whaff.

    As for Dyson, the outsourcing abroad and tax “arrangements” are unacceptable to me as a radical Liberal. It’s greedy and cruel to those who worked for him to build up his business .On a personal level I don’t like his smug TV adverts which I find irritating and patronising. As to his knighthood – I bet the peasants in Wiltshire weren’t that impressed.

    As to the Lib Dem Party, I don’t know what you don’t like because you don’t say. Perhaps you could tell ?

    For myself I found the 2010-15 period excruciating. I believed it was a sell out of the radical Liberalism in which I believed….. for what ???? We’re still getting over it and it will take some time. If we don’t then some of us will find plenty of other interesting things to do with our lives.

    There are self-appointed self-important little cliques amongst the Lib Dem establishment……………. I’m sure you can fill in the gaps…………. They were mobilised in the Trident vote last September. If it were left to me there would be no more knighthoods which serve no purpose but vanity, Nor would honours be given to rich donors, or peerages given for a cosy job for life in Westminster…… and a peer who charges nearly £ 9,000 in air fares at the public expense to come back from the USA to make a four minute speech needs to take a good hard look in the mirror.

    Expect the ceiling to come crashing down at any moment..

  • That tells you something.

  • Peter Watson 19th Jul '16 - 12:48am

    @David Raw “As to the Lib Dem Party, I don’t know what you don’t like because you don’t say. Perhaps you could tell ? For myself I found the 2010-15 period excruciating.”
    Ditto. I used to be a member of the Liberal Party and was a “salad” for a short time. Mostly after that I simply voted without much thought for the descendants of that party at every sort of election I could (apart from a tactical Labour vote in 1997). After the 2010 election, with a high-profile optimistic campaign for a new kind of politics, I was shocked that the Lib Dems looked very comfortable as a pro-Tory anti-Labour party and were not as independent or as left-ish as I had believed. I discovered this site while trying to find out if the Lib Dems were a party I could vote for again instead of against. I’ve learnt a lot about Lib Dems and politics, and mostly over the last few years the people I’ve agreed with were the ones with a disappointed “Dude, where’s my party?” attitude. Since the 2015 election the party seems directionless, neither owning nor disowning the coalition years, and I don’t really know what it stands for now (which is perhaps an improvement on not liking what it appeared to stand for!). Currently it seems to be about pro-EU soggy centralism, motherhood and apple pie. Those who turn up to conferences seem to prod the party randomly in a new direction on one issue or another (e.g. drug liberalisation, all women shortlists, fracking), much to the dismay of other members. The party seems hell bent on defining itself as the “party of in at all costs” despite a very illiberal undemocratic tone at times and apparently 30% of Lib Dem voters being Brexiters.
    I still can’t drag myself away from this site but I do find myself wondering what is the point of the Lib Dems. Perhaps an unleadable and unprincipled parliamentary Labour Party will leave Lib Dems looking like a strong alternative, or perhaps a split in the Labour Party will make Lib Dems irrelevant.

  • Lorenzo Cherin 19th Jul '16 - 3:12am

    Peter Watson

    You , as with David Raw , are making some very good points.

    I am very keen on the principled stance of our leader , Tim ,and I say that for those of us who are members, rather than the absent while on duty , approach ,or something to that effect , or ineffect ,rather , of the current Labour leader . But on the EU , I , as with you and David Raw , and others , am concerned that while Tim wants to commit to the outward looking politics he so well expresses, he must not seem obsessed with the EU as the only way to do that , and not years ahead of a definite election ! And that is constructive criticism as I like and admire him a lot.
    Plus we would rather like to be consulted on policy as members!

    As to what the party stands for , I was not against every other thing in the coalition , but am in the radical centre and moderate centre left , my issue with older radicals and younger moderates , and sometimes older moderates and younger radicals , is , they sometimes reach for the more obvious policy solutions , re tread ideas , or ones that get a core of fans on an issue happy to support it , rather than something that in actuality makes a difference , and is genuinely radical , or , if moderate , is common sense and necessary , and even when principled, is a vote winner !

    Having got that all said , actually , looking at the other parties but particularly Labour , this party is one full of terrific members young , old , and my age what is called younger middle aged , the Tim and Nick generation, and if we could get some air time for anything other than the EU , or even that , we might gain support !

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