In this second part of my interview with Liverpool’s Lib Dem Council Group leader Cllr Carl Cashman, we look at how he got interested in the party and his political philosophy.

I asked him why the Lib Dems?

Fundamentally I’m a Liberal and quite a lot of people forget that in this day and age and they align themselves with a party because of the colour tie they get to where or it’s going to do well or because they think that’s the party for the working class or that’s the party for business and ultimately I think Liberalism is about giving people the tools to make their life the best life that it can possibly be.

So I believe strongly that if you allow people to flourish, give them the conditions to do so that they will flourish and the difference for me between the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives and Labour Party is there’s that horseshoe of control isn’t there? Where the Labour Party wants to control the use of public assets, the Conservative Party wants all control to go to private companies and there’s a middle space of Liberalism where actually people should control the assets that are in society which is why I’m a huge proponent of mutual and cooperatives.

But Carl doesn’t identify as a Social Liberal or an Orange Booker.

When people talk about Left and Right I say Liberalism is its own distinct ideology and I reject those ideas of Left and Right. I call myself a Liberal and I call myself a progressive because I think society gets better when you make progress and I think you can make progress by being socially liberal and also being economically liberal so in the sense of setting businesses free, so ensuring businesses aren’t paying ridiculously high taxes like they are now but also setting people free. So giving people the education that they need to flourish. Giving people the housing they need to flourish. I think those two things are compatible and are compatible with Liberalism.

Carl has no truck with the Labour Party, his main opponents in the city.

My job is to fight the Conservatives (as a progressive) but also to replace the Labour Party because they aren’t a progressive party.

For me it’s about establishing an identity and I think the Lib Dems struggle with that sometimes. One because were too fair minded in many ways because were Liberals and two because were not wanting to upset people who might have lent us their votes and on many occasions we build that track record around the person and that’s vital but we’ve also got to please some very tender coalitions at times of people who’ve voted for us.

So that perhaps explains why our leadership seem to be running scared of Tory voters and afraid of upsetting the horses, now I understand. I disagree with it, but I understand it.

I’ve been the first person to raise concerns when I’ve seen some of our people talking about certain policies because they’re from a certain area and I say well this certainly isn’t going to go down well in Liverpool.

First and foremost, and this is a question Mathew that I think everyone needs to ask themselves when they’re going in to politics, who do you serve? For me there’s three different things; your party, your place, and the organisation so the Council etc. For me it’s quite clear that it’s first the place where I live that’s Liverpool, then it’s the party, then it’s the institution and I think we’ve got to be really careful to remember that.

So what qualities does Carl think he brings as a leader?

I always find it difficult to talk about myself in those terms. I’m the type of person that, because I’m from a very modest upbringing and my nan and granddad are very modest people, I don’t talk myself up in that way so, and this isn’t a pity me thing, I find myself when people say ‘you’ve done well in this’ I question it and think ‘really?’ But in terms of what I believe I bring is hard work and second the intention of making sure that we do what is right and not what is necessarily easy.

There’s no other place like Liverpool for it’s politics, for its people, for its culture and the Council won’t change for that reason so when the new (Liverpool) Labour leader says it’s ’hard work not fireworks’ I’m sorry but he’s not going to be able to do that and that’s been shown over the course of the last two years when I’ve been leader and part of my mission Mathew is to not sit on my hands and let Labour get away with certain things because we think maybe we should be a bit fair minded.

I’m very much the person that is going to get stuck in and tell them what they’re doing wrong. So if you come to watch a Council meeting you would very much see us holding our own despite the fact that we’re fifteen (Councillors) and they’re sixty one and you’d see no sense of being intimidated from my side.

Liberal campaigning came from Liverpool, which is something I’m very proud of.

Does it frustrate him that our party (at least in terms of its MPs) is so painfully middle Class and London/South East based? This man certainly doesn’t mince his words.

It does frustrate me. A moment that did get to me was when Ed Davey said that we’re the party of middle England. I really didn’t like that. I do sympathise with where Ed’s at and where the party’s at and knowing that they have to have some sort of message like that but we also need to be a party that takes the fight to Labour again and that is truly a national party again.

I think at the moment, because we’ve been successful in those few areas (in the South) it’s saying ‘let’s consolidate what we’ve got’ and I completely get that but we also need to be saying things about Wales, Scotland, Merseyside, Manchester, the Midlands, the East Midlands. A lot of members would feel a similar way. It’s about bringing those voices into Parliament.

So given his obvious abilities, why doesn’t the party use him more on the national stage?

I think they have done quite a few things. But there’s this Westminster focus mentality, which for me seems really strange for a party of localism and of federalism. So there’s been a few times where I’ve said I’m happy to come on this or to do that and the party have listened and put me forward on a few occasions. I think they could probably do more and I’d be happy to do more.

Carl referenced a number of people who’ve inspired him in politics, one of whom is the former leader of Liverpool and now our Lords education spokesperson Mike Storey who said to a young Carl “why would you want to be an MP when you could run a Council,” but does Carl see himself running for a Commons seat one day?

People have asked me this and I’ve always been quite careful about it. I don’t want to sound like I’m a proponent of local government and then sound like I can’t wait to get out of local government. Local government is where the real nitty gritty happens and you can transform people’s lives by being right next to people.

In terms of being in Parliament I’d probably never say never but I’ve looked at the likes of Steve Rotherham who has come back from Parliament, same with Andy Burnham, and said it isn’t the environment for them. Maybe I would do the same. It’s hard to know until that moment comes. But I can say this, I wouldn’t want to be an MP for anywhere other than Liverpool.

In the third and final instalment on Wednesday, we’ll cover Carl’s vision for LIverpool.

* Mathew Hulbert is a former Councillor, is a regular commentator on TV and Radio, and is Co-Host of the Political Frenemies podcast.