Yesterday afternoon, I was somewhat nervous to receive notification that Tim Farron was going to make a “major speech”. Straight after an election, when you are still suffering from advanced post-election bone tiredness, is no time to be suddenly deciding to make a “major speech”.
But it was a good speech and I applaud Tim’s display of righteous anger on behalf of the young and those who are boiling with rage – those who are now shouting: “we are better than this”.
Also yesterday afternoon, I received an email from the party calling the referendum campaign “unbearable and unacceptable”.
Now hold on a minute.
Can we have a little more reverence for the decision of the British people? We had a very long referendum campaign with an extremely thorough thrashing out of every conceivable angle of debate. It was on the telly, radio and social media at breakfast, lunch and supper time for months. Everybody had a chance to have their say. The turnout was massive. The result was clear. We are a union – the United Kingdom – so the majority prevails. End of. The people have spoken. Trust the people.
We have years of wrangling ahead of us, as we shape our post-EU future. But at least we can be assured that people have seen a democratic decision taking place. The will of people has clearly prevailed. So it is reasonable to expect people getting behind that decision to make it work.
And to say there is “wiggle room” within the referendum decision is the under-statement of the century. I don’t think the associate membership being mooted is viable because the referendum said “no” to ‘membership’. But membership of the EEA and/or EFTA is up for grabs. There was no clarity in the plebiscite for ruling out continued membership of the single market. (The Norway solution was never clearly ruled out by the leave campaigns – indeed many leave speakers cited it as a shining example). So, based on a future decision of our parliament, it is up for grabs. We can salvage quite a lot from this decision, once the dust and rubble has settled.
While acknowledging that the people have spoken, one adds that what they have said, beyond the simple “no” to the question on the ballot paper, is not clear. If you prick up your ears to hear what they said, all you will hear is gobbledegook or “gkabdkdithekenidbdunfkfnrjn”.
It is up to parliament to make sense of the decision and move it forward in a reasonable way. And that is where we can influence a reasonable and progressive solution for the future. I believe we can make it a solution which all those young people, who voted “remain” in their droves yesterday, can be proud of.
* Paul Walter is a Liberal Democrat activist and member of the Liberal Democrat Voice team. He blogs at Liberal Burblings.
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50 Comments
I agree Paul,
One of the reasons that I have been proposing that the party took a stand in advance on following the EEA route was so that we were in the position yesterday morning of saying why we thought the EEA route was aviable next step for the UK in its relations with our European neighbours.
We missed that opportunity, but we should not delay. We should not wait for others to ‘negotiate’ and react to those negotiations. We should take a lead. What Britain, Europe and the rest of the world needs is for Britain to be a full and active member of the EEA and for the rest of the EU countries to encourage us in that undertaking.
I wish our leader had given a speech yesterday rather like your piece written here. Trust the people tempered by prudence. The people were right to reject the present EU, prudence tells us that we should not abandon the single market or the four freedoms but we should defend the sovereignty of our Parliaments – that means leading in the EEA to reform relations across Europe.
TV journalists yesterday were finding no shortage of Leave voters who had woken up and thought: “what have I done?”
Now I don’t want to overplay this, since anecdotes are not evidence and the actual numbers of these people may be tiny. They may also be offset by other people who voted Remain but woke up and thought “you know, the EU really wasn’t that great and I feel optimistic we can make it on our own”.
But my point is, the margin of victory was fairly small, and the polls have been pretty close throughout, with each side taking the odd significant lead. It’s perfectly possible that had the referendum been taken an another day – or we had multiple referendums – we might have got different results depending on how people felt that particular day. This is why I think that such profound issues, with long-lasting and irreversible consequences, should be left to the considered view of Parliament rather than the randomness of a referendum. I admit now, Clegg was right on that.
I actually think the Jo Cox murder may have helped Leave, because the pollsters reckoned Leave had peaked a week or so before that and Remain was catching up, but the cessation of campaigning for three days probably froze people’s opinions.
You make a good point about social cohesion Paul for those of us who voted remain will increasingly call to account those who voted Leave. Already yesterday I dismissed various trades people that work for me that voted Leave. They have now lost that part of their income provided by me. This will happen increasingly as we become two separate communities in the same land. This is what a move away from a parliamentary democracy has done.
A sensible response, But the problem now is that we have the EU and a brewing constitutional crisis to deal with. Apart from anything else PMs causing major chaos, then resigning and being replaced without it triggering a general election is turning into a very bad habit in Britain. Maybe, it’s time to start looking at a way of stopping this undemocratic development.
“We are a union – the United Kingdom – so the majority prevails. End of. The people have spoken.”
Excellent article, Paul.
Yeas to EEA/Efta and the four freedoms.
Neil,
Are we supposed to applaud your vindictiveness?
At every election in my lifetime the people have spoken and by much larger majorities they have said “we don’t want to be represented by the Liberals / Liberal Democrats”. I have always accepted that that was their decision and then set about trying to change their minds.
In the world of this article, democracy is nine wolves and a highland cattle voting on what to have for lunch and inviting us to have reverence for the decision of the wolves. Not very liberal. The liberal response is to say that the highland coo now has a right to choose to leave the field.
Glen. Feel what you will. But there will social unrest and yes vindictiveness. When the country is so devided what do you expect.
‘The people have spoken’
Yes and they spoke not to leave the EU, but to show that they are utterly divided on the issue of EU membership
‘Trust the people’
Frankly (and with respect to all people), not necessarily so. Several of the people I talked to who voted to leave, did so for a range of reasons, and some for no reason. One person objected to Neil Kinnock’s EU Commissioner pension. One simply said he didn’t really know why. I respect these people, but I do not trust their judgment on this question.
“Glen. Feel what you will. But there will social unrest and yes vindictiveness. When the country is so devided what do you expect.”
Decency? Or, respect?
If Remain had won, do you think Leave campaigners would have accepted the result as the end of the discussion? Of course not! And neither should we. I’ve spent every week since February campaigning for Remain and have spoken to many hundreds of Leave supporters, and I fundamentally disagree that all we will hear is gobbledygook – there is much anger at the current state of our society and there are many legitimate complaints, but the vast majority of these issues are rooted in the inequities of British domestic policy, not our membership of the EU. I believe that we should fight to show that these domestic issues can and must be addressed, and we must fight continue our fight to preserve our membership of the EU. The people have spoken, but they’re not saying what you think.
Neil I am a committed Europhile who sent off my Remain postal vote 20 minutes after it dropped on the mat. But even I was shaken by the insistence, endless repetition and consistency of the negative key messages – it was like being hypnotised. Leave got its CAMPAIGN resoundingly right, Stronger in was a shambles. I knew the reality behind most of the false claims, how do we expect ordinary non politically involved people to do that? Cameron got his strategy wrong in so many ways – the short time frame, the negative, confused and half hearted arguments, the lack of clear attractive key messages or a variety of good speakers and the appalling organisation on the ground. I too tried to volunteer, get a garden poster – got nothing. I asked for a speaker for a hustings – no response. Was there any voter identification or knocking up (apart from dozens of redundant emails to committed remainers who had signed up to the campaign). It reminded irresistibly of the Yes campaign for the Alternative vote referendum.
Immigration and particularly immigration from outside the EU (Turkey and Syria particularly) was the dominant driving force of the Leave campaign. The result was bought on the back of the anti-foreigner tiger. It was against everything Liberalism stands for.
The Liberal Party has a proud record fighting racism, Liberal Democrats should continue and respect this tradition rather than respect a referendum that has vilified foreigners and has left the younger generation bereft of a voice, yet condemned to live the consequences of the prejudices of their elders, but not betters.
Geoff you are so right. The country has not decided to leave it’s said we can’t agree. But the time has come i think for many of us to leave this silly country and let Farage and Co have it.
@Geoff Crocker – You were obviously taking part in a different referendum
As far as I know people were asked if they wanted to REMAIN or LEAVE and
not just to say whether how divided they were on the issue of EU membership”
We knew the country was divided The point of the exercise to gauge the extent of that division andon which side the majority opinion lay The people have spoken and
We now know what that is
The majority of British people do not wish to continue as members of the EU
@Neil if your claim that ” yesterday I dismissed various trades people that work for me that voted Leave.” is true you should hang your head in shame That action is autocratic and I suspect illegal
Those who wanted a different outcome simply have to accept the reality of the situation As far as I can tell no one has demonstrated that the vote was rigged or flawed So it was open and fair
Liberal Democrats are supposed to be 1. Democratic 2. Pro – Europe 3. Internationalist
So how can anyone who voted REMAIN now call the result “Unacceptable” just because
the majority vote was for LEAVE ?
I also do not buy into the narrative which says just because we have voted to leave the European Union we are no longer Pro Europe Sure the relationship will change but that is not the same thing as saying we will have to break off any form of contact with all of the countries within the EU I accept the way we do business with them will change but it will not cease We live in a global world – that is not going to change any time soon
Finally we need to remember that there are over 150 trading nations in the world of which just 28 are within the EU and we do serious trade with less than 10 of them
We need to keep a sense of perspective
Tim Farron and co need to accept the will of the people and make things work for our country otherwise rather than winning new support the Party is in danger of losing support
After all I understand 25% of Libdem supporters voted LEAVE and thus contributed to outcome of this very democratic exercise
Vincent
Perhaps gobbledegook was a bad phrase by me.
I meant it’s a bit like the Tower of Babel – everyone saying different things – I want us to be like Guernsey, I want to stop illegal immigration, I want to stop the Germans ruling us – all things I heard. Clearly people said they do not want to be in the EU. Beyond that it is negotiable. I advocate the Norway model and the leading Brexiteers seem to be favouring that also. It’s not the end of the world.
“I advocate the Norway model and the leading Brexiteers seem to be favouring that also. It’s not the end of the world.”
Fingers crossed. And no, far from it.
@Rabi Martins – Ashcroft polled 13000 people after they voted in the referendum. The results are available on lordashcroftpolls.com and are well worth reading. Remember it is not an opinion poll- it is asking 13000 people who had already voted.
30% of those who voted LD in 2015 voted “leave” and 5% of all votes for “leave” came from that group. Had LD voters from GE 2015 all uniformly voted “remain” the final result might well have been reversed.
I have never previously heard it suggested that an election result should be overturned on the basis of anecdotal evidence of buyers’ remorse and find it an extraordinary idea.
The bottom line is that the election was lost in the old industrial cities by the votes of the white working class that has perceived none of the benefits of the globalisation so beloved by many on this site. The endless pejorative references to these voters that I have seen here and on facebook reinforces a perception of the Lib Dems as the party of the self-satisfied self-righteous urban middle-class.
Rabies your simply 100% wrong. Such a sad confused collection of thoughts. People will be angry bitter and yes vindictictive. And you have to allow time for that. The let’s pretend this can be made to work approach is simply wrong. We have a country simply split in two. And if your saying I can’t cancel my window cleaner gardener odd job man ironing lady your even more illiberal than your post sounded
@Rabi Martins. Based on a turnout of 29.57 million at the 2015 election and 7.9% liberal Democrat share that would give 0.59million leave and 1.75million remain from our total 2.34million vote. It would be interesting to know the figures for the other political parties.
My fear is, because leave is anti immigration, that there will be no agreement that includes any freedom of movement. That excludes a Norway style agreement.
There are a number of good suggestions in this thread and in Paul’s other thread.
What is missing is a sense of urgency.
The country is leaderless
David C is on the way out, and I hate to think who will replace him
Jeremy C has shown himself to be a pathetic leader.
Tim is the invisible leader, not a mention of Tim or Lib Dems in the pro remain papers, Guardian and I today.
As a party we must try to move into this vacuum and appeal to a sizeable number of the 16 Million retainers.
That needs
A key campaigning message of an international flavour, EEA and EFTA looks the best bet
A roadmap of other issues we must address.
FPC must get working on this now, they do not have weeks they have days. Though having been an active member for over 20 years I have no idea as how to get FPC to do anything.
Having a campaign message and a road map we now need a campaign that will attract attention.
Tim is a good communicator, but he he needs supporting with an action plan.
Our current campaigning is a shambles. What bright spark thought of wasting money by sending out thousands of (uninspiring) leaflets on the eve of poll.
Our leaflet technique will only work for a few well resourced areas.
Our campaigning needs to be brought up to date
We need:
A campaigning web site with the ability to handle petitions NOW
Web site information sent to local party web sites and my councillor sites
Spokespersons that write letters to the press, supporting a letter writing campaign for every local party
A Facebook campaign
This is the opportunity of a life time, are we up to the job?
“My fear is, because leave is anti immigration, that there will be no agreement that includes any freedom of movement. That excludes a Norway style agreement.”
The future does not belong to a faction within Leave. Many Leavers voted Leave because they expect a Norway agreement. Add that to the 48.1% Remainers who will take it as Plan B, and you have a substantial majority of the electorate who will be happy with the EEA option. So it will infuriate UKIP, but the referendum did not give them a mandate for their version of Leave. They have 1 MP and have voted themselves out of their only powerbase.
I’ve watched how the stages of grief have unfold in articles and comments since Friday am. You can already place each article and comment into its relevant Kubler-Ross Stage of 1. Denial 2. Anger 3. Bargaining 4. Depression 5. Acceptance.
If you sacked your gardener merely for having the audacity to vote LEAVE, I think it’s fair to put you in the Anger stage? Others are clearly at the Bargaining stage with their EEA promotion. Yet others want to stay under the duvet in Denial stage, hoping against hope that Parliament will just ignore a democratic result as merely advisory.
However long it takes for your particular grieving process to get worked through, I wish you well,.. but for sure, positive discussion can only resume when most everyone has reached the stage of Acceptance.
And that Acceptance stage means accepting that the Brexit vote is real and valid,.. that Brexit is going to happen,.. and Brexit will mean a lengthy process of discussion that will have to satiate the core referendum vote desire,.. which is,..ridding ourselves of an unwanted layer of EU governance that we the British voters,.. never asked for, and certainly never voted for.
Most everything else is negotiable, but Brexit has at its centre, a reclaiming of the British voters democratic right to hire and fire their political representatives, and that right is, Non-Negotiable.
So now, instead, you will have a layer of EU governance that you not only never voted for, but will be unable to vote for or against — because you voted to abandon your vote within the EU. O well done.
Really good article Paul. I find myself in agreement with most of it.
I had really begun questioning my membership of this party what with the constant barrage of emails before the vote assuming that I was of course going to vote Remain (I didn’t). This feeling has grown since Brexit. I was especially disappointed with Tim’s speech yesterday; there was no olive branch; no acknowledgement that a sizable minority of Lib Dems had voted Leave; the whole speech left a bad taste in my mouth.
There are those of us within the Liberal Democrats who voted leave not out of fear of immigrants, not out of hate, but purely out of the fact that the EU is an illiberal institution that was a hindrance, not an ally in the promotion of liberal democracy.
I truly hope that the leadership of the party acknowledges this and somehow reaches out to those of us who voted Leave.
Well said Paul Murray 11.22 am
Liam Birch
There are those of us within the Liberal Democrats who voted leave not out of fear of immigrants, not out of hate, but purely out of the fact that the EU is an illiberal institution that was a hindrance, not an ally in the promotion of liberal democracy.
Ok, so please tell us how this wonderful new free society that is supposed to emerge from Brexit is to come about?
So far as I can see, the chains of slavery that the pro-Brexit newspapers are saying on their front pages today have been cut off amount to various trading standards, where though one may quibble about details wouldn’t differ that much from the standards one would want in place anyway.
The pro-Brexit people are now having to admit that, er, no there won’t be an extra £350 million pound a week to spend on government services.
So what is it we can now do to make everyone feel see free and happy and so much different from how they felt that made them vote leave? Please tell us, because I genuinely can’t see. Throw out everyone working here who is a citizen of an EU country? That seems to me to be the one thing that the government can do once Brexit goes through.
The Liberal Democrats are a party: a word which derives ultimately from Latin pars, a part. That is, the Liberal Democrats represent a specific part, segment, or interest within the British body politic. (I’d like to think that it’s the brains, but I frequently have my faith in that proposition sorely tested.) As a party, the Liberal Democrats are in no way obliged to accept, condone, or approve of the views of a majority (no matter how large) of the British public. Given that the British public have been happily voting Labour and Tory for years, not admitting the infallible wisdom of the public seems like a rather healthy attitude for a minority party.
Of course the referendum results are not reversible (as everyone who campaigned for Remain pointed out). Certainly we should support getting the best deal from the EU that we can. But that is not acceptance; it is making the best of a bad situation. It in no way changes the fact that voting Leave was a disastrously unwise decision, a self-inflicted blow which will have catastrophic consequences for generations to come, and the Liberal Democrats should be proud to have opposed it.
Matthew Huntbach – “…So what is it we can now do to make everyone feel free and happy and so much different from how they felt that made them vote leave?..”
Absolutely anything we want, without any interference from the EU whatsoever. Self-determination and direct representative democracy – what a novel idea.
@, Paul Walter ” The result was clear. We are a union – the United Kingdom – so the majority prevails. End of. The people have spoken. Trust the people.”
Oh no it’s not. It might be the view from the Thames Valley -but it is not the view from the Firth of Forth.
My first post here so tell me to jog on if you like. I’m a tad on the dense side, did vote Leave after all, but is Neil joking about dismissing his trades people or what?
@David Raw
Erm…actually Berkshire voted the same way as Scotland. We were 52-48 in favour of remain.
I quite understand that Scotland may have a second independence rferendum, but we are currently a United Kingdom and we must deal with the current constitution as it stands.
@Peter Hayes
“My fear is, because leave is anti immigration, that there will be no agreement that includes any freedom of movement. That excludes a Norway style agreement.”
Well no actually. Now that the polls are closed leading Brexiteers Nigel Evans and Daniel Hannan are telling us that they didn’t say they would reduce immigration and that free movement of labour may stay. Apparently when they talked about taking back control of immigration they were only talking about the right to control the tiddlywinks allowances given to EU immigrant workers on every second Thursday.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2016/jun/25/tory-mep-daniel-hannan-tells-bbc-free-movement-of-labour-might-not-end-video
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36629300
The turnout was massive. The result was clear. We are a union – the United Kingdom – so the majority prevails. End of. The people have spoken. Trust the people.
What? is this a paid up member of the LibDem’s speaking?
Is the next thing we can expect to hear is that our FPTP system for Westminster is all fine and dandy and that a party that only received a total of 11.3m votes from an electorate of 46.4m fully satisfies LibDem principles on representative democracy and so the LibDem’s won’t try and obstruct them in their attempts to implement their manifesto pledges?
Lets be clear only 17.4m people voted ‘Leave’ out of an electorate of 46.5m, ie. approximately 37.5% of the electorate. If this were a strike ballot or a shareholder vote on a significant corporate event the result would be declared a vote for the status quo, because the motion failed to gain the 51% of members/shareholder majority required to carry it.
For support for this viewpoint, we need to look no further than Nigel Farage, who is on record as saying back in May that a narrow win for Remain could cause unstoppable demand for a rerun of the referendum, where ‘narrow’ was 52% to 48%…
So there are little grounds for many Leave supporters complaining about a rerun, given this is something they themselves said they would seek to do if the result wasn’t in their favour.
Yes it is a paid up member of the Liberal Democrats speaking, Roland. Not only that, it is a member who was still knocking on doors at 9.30pm on Thursday trying to persuade voters to vote remain, and indeed in our county they did vote remain by a majority. You can actually passionately disagree with something, while also accepting that it is the will of the people, as expressed within the framework of the country’s laws, and pledging to work positively to implement the new situation as well as possible. If we implement the Norway model, or something like it, we will not face economic disaster and we will not have turned our backs on Europe.
Liam Birch
Matthew Huntbach – “…So what is it we can now do to make everyone feel free and happy and so much different from how they felt that made them vote leave?..”
Absolutely anything we want, without any interference from the EU whatsoever. Self-determination and direct representative democracy – what a novel idea.
No, that does not answer my question. But, to make it clear, I’ll re-phrase it:
“…So what is it we can now, that we couldn’t do as a member of the EU, do to make everyone feel free and happy and so much different from how they felt that made them vote leave?..”
We CAN’T do absolutely anything we want. We can only do what is possible. And if we do something it often means something else has to be done. That has been a big problem in politics as many ordinary people don’t seem to get that point, and politicians don’t tell them. E.g. if you want no university tuition fees you have to raise taxes to pay for funding universities.
I don’t agree “the people have spoken”, finish. The people voted on incomplete information and a 6 month campaign of endlessly repeated right-wing propaganda in largely biased national media. I have signed the 3 million signature petition calling for a second EU referendum. The majority attained on Thursday, 52% to 48%, is well within the margin of polling error and on a momentous and complex constitutional matter is frankly meaningless. I regard it as a protest against austerity. A threshold of at least 60% for massive constitutional change is essential – even a simple strike ballot is required to achieve more than 50% of the votes cast.
The likely new Scottish independence referendum which risks breaking up the United Kingdom illustrates one of many factors about which the electorate was incompletely informed when voting, as does the reneging on the promises of £350 million a week spent on the NHS, and the reduction of immigration after the Brexit.
@ Margaret Gray,
I agree Margaret. Already some of the leaders of remain are rowing back on what they promised the electorate.
The electorate were not enabled to make an INFORMED choice thanks to the lies and deceptions.
Well said, Margaret Gray. On Friday morning I felt my rights as a European citizen had been stolen from me by a mixture of lies, deception, ignorance, and prejudice. With the petition for a second referendum rising towards 3m signatures, and both major parties in flux, I feel differently today. Those of us who have been working for the European dream of peace and prosperity through the coming together of Europe’s peoples may have lost a battle; we have not lost the war.
I could only accept the Norway option, which involves a loss instead of a sharing and enhancement of sovereignty, as a very bad second-best, and would continue to argue against it. In the meantime I shall continue to fight for the UK’s place within the EU, and support my party and its commitment to that aim.
The Referendum result does not bind Parliament, which remains sovereign, and while I can respect the Leave voters’ decision, our democracy is thankfully representative, not direct. I rest my faith in the collective common sense of our MPs to resist what was achieved by lies and deception feeding on widespread ignorance and prejudice, and to rescue our country from self-harm.
Hopefully we shall have a general election before Christmas, and if our own party and Labour both include continued EU membership in their manifestos this may help prevent the triggering of Article 50.
A government of national unity? Probably not, but there’s all to play for. We haven’t left the European Union yet, and I hope we never shall.
I think it was plain daft to call a referendum, it was just as daft to have a 50% plus 1 vote winning line on such a massive issue. However, I’m not sure the lies and deceptions were the main cause of the defeat. Just walk around the 100’s of towns of England and Wales, people are angry about zero hour contracts and no job security, lack of decent housing and poor services. Millions think it’s a waste of time voting in a General Election because they have had all the 3 main parties in government and there has been very little difference. However, the referendum was a chance to kick the establishment, so they all came out to vote. From their point of view things couldn’t get any worse, so why not vote for change? Our politicians are – from all parties – about as bad as I can ever remember. I may have been critical of the Blair/Brown team in the past, but I’d give my right arm to have them in control now. Meanwhile I’m lucky and can apply for an Irish passport which is what I’m currently doing. I plan to retire to Majorca shortly and I’m not going to give up my right to settle there and get free medical treatment just because my fellow country men are pissed off with their politicians.
@ Paul Walter “Erm…actually Berkshire voted the same way as Scotland. We were 52-48 in favour of remain”.
That’s stretching the elastic a bit, Paul – tho’ I’m pleased the good burghers of Berkshire were not quite as daft as the rest of the Home Counties….. particularly Essex. The problem with stretching the elastic – as frequently as Comrade Clegg and pals frequently did between 2010-15, – is that embarrassingly something eventually falls down.
As to comparing Berkshire and Scotland – no, not really : Berkshire 52-48, Scotland 62-38, my own county East Lothian 64.6 – 35.4. Not even one Scottish voting area voted out.
We are now seriously considering whether we prefer the EU to the UK. Certainly a Johnson/Gove/Duncan-Smith government is not top of our bucket list.
David
I won’t rise to that. Have a great Sunday yourself!
What I was trying to say is that we have to deal with the constitutional position as it stands now. We cannot reverse the decision.
As someone who works with not one but two Scots bosses and lots of Scots people in my job, of course there will be a second Scotindy ref and of course there will be a vote in favour of independence. I applaud that.
malc – yes you’re right about the economic disadvantage factor but I did describe this as a protest against austerity – the long term doctrinaire Europhobes skilfully and mendaciously harnessed people’s distress and succeeded in getting them to blame the “foreigners”. Old fashioned but effective, and dangerous.
@Paul Walter
First things first, well said.
@malc
“From their point of view things couldn’t get any worse, so why not vote for change? ”
I just assumed that the polls were too close for Remain to lose, that any lead on the Leave side would evaporate on polling day. I then read this on the 12th and immediately started having doubts. You can’t scare people who have nothing left to lose.
http://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/jessica-goldfinch-i-know-the-foodbank-so-leave-holds-no-terrors-for-me/
I watched a lot of people explaining why they were probably due to vote the way they did.
Had they done so in a neutral media context, I would follow my instinct that says, if you can’t be bothered to find out anything about this, it is better not to vote.
People thought ignorance was a virtue. But the media has a role.
I agree with Margaret. The campaign was a pretty awful one.
I also got fed up with men shouting at each other. But I did know that some of the warnings were true. The women were almost always better.
Sadie Smith
Did you watch the debate when the 3 “remain” women spent most of the night making very personal attacks on Boris Johnson? There are many other examples I could quote, but all in all both sexes were as bad as the other.
@Paul Walter – I’m conscious that I’m am opening myself up to charges of trying to teach my grandmother to suck eggs here…
Farage is on record as saying that a narrow win for Remain by 52% to 48% would mean “unfinished business by a long way” and could cause unstoppable demand for a rerun of the referendum, namely he and Leave would loudly demand a rerun until they got one. Additionally, Leave would have no inhibition in using the emotional backlash (his) groups of voters would be feeling after such a result, to further his campaign. So I see no reason whatsoever, why Remain can’t do similar given it is in the position Farage was expecting to be in; only Remain doesn’t have a strong leader…
So given the Referendum is just the first act of this drama and the following acts have yet to be written, there are things we can do. Specifically, get as many people (including the under 16’s!) to sign the petition “EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum” https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215/
Whilst we can pick fault with the detailed wording of the petition, it is good enough to tell Westminster “the people have spoken – trust the people”! Particularly as over a million people a day have been signing up to it and it is likely to attract several million more in the coming weeks; as our economic prospects slide further – you thought Friday was bad…
So Paul, are you willing to devote just a few minutes to promoting something that is best done now when millions of people are motivated to do something, that could result in a massive Remain vote and thus avoid the whole discussion about the Norway model etc.? So Carpe Diem!
malc
Just walk around the 100’s of towns of England and Wales, people are angry about zero hour contracts and no job security, lack of decent housing and poor services.
Sure, and that is why those of us who opposed Leave must now say to Boris Johnson et al “Right, you won, you solve these people’s problems – we will not stop you from doing so”. I suggest mass abstention from all pro-Remain politicians, but question, question, question the pro-Leave politicians on why they haven’t produced the heavenly golden age they promised Leave would give us.
So, Boris Johnson:
How are YOU going to give decent secure jobs to all those who don’t have them?
How are YOU going to give decent affordable housing to all those who don’t have it?
You won because all those people voted for what you wanted thinking somehow Brexit would deliver it. The newspapers who supported you are now pushing this win as an escape from some sort of slavery, as some grand new freedom. So, deliver the freedom those who voted for you are expecting.