When you fall foul of Godwin’s Law by bringing Hitler into a conversation, you have to expect to be criticised. Boris Johnson isn’t stupid. Far from it. He was trying to get those two words resounding in people’s heads. It doesn’t matter that he refined his comments in the interview. The headlines turbo-boost the poison dripping from the Brexiteers in their highly emotive campaign. They play on people’s fears and suggest that leaving the EU would solve all our problems.
Both Tim Farron and Paddy Ashdown have been quick to resoundingly condemn Boris’s comments. Tim said:
Under Hitler, Europeans were killing each other, now they are arguing over Eurovision.
The European Union is what happens when countries seek to learn from the past and work together. Boris Johnson’s latest intervention is what happens when people refuse to learn the lessons of the past and seek to spread discord by inventing conspiracies.
The EU has helped secure peace; Hitler destroyed peace and killed millions of innocent people. It is extraordinary that anyone even needs to point this out to him.
While Paddy tweeted:
Boris: Another tuppeny tin-pot imitation Churchill promising "fight them on the beaches" while weakening our defences & wrecking our economy
— Paddy Ashdown (@paddyashdown) May 15, 2016
They are right, but we need more proactive, positive commentary from them too:
We’ve had precious little melody to counteract the negativity on both sides. I do accept that the Remain campaign has to point out the harsh reality of leaving Europe as defined by virtually every credible international source, but they need to elevate their appeal. Tim Farron did that very well the other day with his excellent speech but that’s not going to reach many people. We need him on video saying this stuff, with bite sized snippets to share on social media. Nobody has, as far as I know, produced a video of that speech and I think that was a big mistake. No doubt he’ll be giving it a few more times over the next few weeks (it’ll be what the West Wing describes as “modified stump”) so let’s make sure that we can share it. Few voters are going to take five minutes out of their day to read the transcript of a speech, even one as good as that. He adds so much to the words when he delivers them.
* Caron Lindsay is Editor of Liberal Democrat Voice and blogs at Caron's Musings. You can find her on Bluesky at caronmlindsay.bsky.social
Follow @libdemvoice.org on Bluesky
Like us on Facebook
Subscribe to our feed
Sign-up for our daily email digest
The street in Australia named after my great great grandfather
Lib Dems pick Richard Kilpatrick as candidate for the Greater Manchester Mayoral election
David Warren
Roland
David Raw
Peter Chambers
23 Comments
Of course it could be pointed out that the most important reason as to why Hitler came to power in the 1st place was the imposition of t of Versailles. A great example of European and American collaboration and working together!
David – That could be pointed out and I’m sure Boris would be delighted to talk that up with his usual waffly chuckle; however, I think that proves how simplistic we can make what should be a very complex debate.
The Treaty of Versailles didn’t create Hitler. Imperial ambition, antisemitism and fascism were all evident in European politics before his ascension. I agree that hampering Germany in such a way didn’t help, but we can’t blame the Treaty for the Third Reich.
We should be both talking up the pro’s of Europe and the consequences of leaving in an engaging manner. Neither side should be taking pot shots with the use of extreme examples.
Ken Livingstone made a fool of himself the other day by citing Hitler. It will be interesting to see whether the anti-EU tabloids give Johnson more latitude.
The conclusion I have come to is that Johnson will do anything, say anything to get attention even if it contradicts what he said five minutes ago, viz his championing of TTIP less than two years ago and what he says about it now.
David Hill
“Indeed to become leader of Germany he even conned the Jewish people in Germany prior to becoming chancellor, that he saw the Jewish people as Germans.”
No the Völkischer Beobachter told the Jews what the Nazis thought of them. It is recorded history.
Contary to what Henry Ford said, history is not bunk but what you say is.
What with JC and now Bojo, British politics is really becoming schoolboy stuff
It is not that Boris is stupid. He knows that the people who read the Daily Mail and other gutter press papers are easily scared by such threats because they are vulnerable, ill-informed or stupid. It is not the media or the politicians or the editors who are stupid it is their customers. They dare not say this because they rely on their support and their money. I do not. So I dare.
This was a deliberate blow of
the dog whistle, not some piece of blathering spluttering waffle. Johnson should be called on it, and severely. not that it will dent him, he’s clearly aiming at becoming the uk’s trump.
minor poiny but please could remainers at least take care not to conflate eu and non-eu institutions? the ebu is one such, and as it has 40 odd members (all of which can participate in its eurovision song contest, aling with israel and oz) it should be obvious that it is NOT an eu thing. I say this because the frothier brexiteers are using the song contest as an example of uk hating waste in action.
Mick Humphries
The Mail had an average daily circulation of 1,708,006 copies in March 2014 and it’s website had more than 100 million unique visitors per month. Even without including the readers of the other “gutter press” you refer to, that’s an awful lot of people to describe as “vunerable, ill-informed or stupid”. Perhaps they are like the vast majority of the population, who are not obsessed with politics and buy their papers for numerous other reasons.
“When you fall foul of Godwin’s Law by bringing Hitler into a conversation, you have to expect to be criticised.”
Actually, in principle I disagree. Crazy genocidal monomaniac dictators like Hitler exist. Hitler is not unique. Stalin, Pol Pot and Karadzic can all be compared with Hitler. We need to talk about Hitler. It will happen again.
Where will it happen again? Not in the EU, where 27 leaders must work together, and no crazy megalomaniac can take overall charge. But it can happen in single isolated countries, large or small, which decide to “go it alone”. There are signs that craziness may be no bar to success in US politics. There are strong signs that our more maverick politicians are generally those who would flock toward the Brexit cause.
By all means let’s talk about Hitler. But for the EU referendum, the right lesson from this piece of history is quite the opposite from what Boris Johnson claims that it is.
It would have been helpful to post what Boris actually said rather than just the responses. He was pointing at various forced attempts to unify Europe through history and drawing a comparison to the EU. The flaw, of course, is that it is entirely a consensual co-operative of sovereign partners and, as we are proving, Parliament can decide at any time to leave. The UK Parliament is sovereign and applies EU regulations because either it works for us to standardise with partners or compromise can bring bigger benefits.
When you attack Boris for saying “Hitler” to wind up people like Tim, Paddy, and Mr Benn and dominate the news media, faking surprise, offence, and indignation that Boris might make a controversial statement, he can easily bat off the critics by pointing out, correctly, that indeed Hitler did try and unify Europe by force. Boris wins. What should have happened is a calm and rational agreement that various megalomaniacs have tried to forcibly take over Europe in the past but there is no comparison to a co-operative of sovereign nations who have all come together freely and have the freedom to opt out at any time.
Perhaps the most effective argument deployed by the pro- Common Market (as it then was) side in 1975 was (a) that the “no” campaign was dominated by the Labour left, and (b) that if the “no” side won, Tony Benn would become Prime Minister.
So why is the “remain” campaign in 2016 not telling the electorate at every possible turn that the Brexit campaign is being run by hard right Tories (and others even further to their right)? Why are the Labour Party and the trade unions not telling their supporters and members that the reason why the Tory right wants Britain out of the EU is so that they can dismantle the employee, consumer and environmental rights that the EU has brought to this country?
How long would paid maternity leave and the minimum wage survive Brexit?
Jeremy Corbyn needs to be shouting that as loudly as he can.
Add to this the hysterical attack on Carney and the IMF who are accused of being political. Grayling saying they have no absolute proof that what they identify will happen,that coming from a leave spokesman is absolutely calling the kettle black
What comes across to me is how incompetent Cameron was to ever think a referendum would unite his party let alone the country.
The second thing is what an opportunist Johnson is (sorry, can’t use the first name – it implies harmless affection). If he becomes Tory leader it will be a disaster (although the range of choice is particularly unedifying).
I’m with Eddie Mair on this one :
Boris Johnson accused: ‘you’re a nasty piece of work’ – video | Politics …
Video for boris johnson eddie mair▶ 3:29
http://www.theguardian.com › Politics › Boris Johnson
24 Mar 2013
Sorry -0 try this one :
Eddie Mair vs Boris Johnson (Full Interview) – YouTube
Video for boris johnson eddie mair▶ 15:29
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAxA-9D4X3o
24 Mar 2013 – Uploaded by JayArgonaut
Mayor of London, Boris Johnson appeared on the Andrew Marr Show expecting the usual safe PR interview …
“If he becomes Tory leader it will be a disaster (although the range of choice is particularly unedifying).”
I can think of several far worse candidates, real nasty Tories including Gove, May, Osbourne, Grayling. Boris is a popularist who sits wherever on the political spectrum best suits re-election, so you are unlikely to see anything that would puncture the jovial buffoon image that serves him so well. For us and Labour, the real disasters would be Stephen Crabb or Ruth Davdson as either will appeal to our target voters and the still numerous Blairite middle classes.
The outcomes of referendums (and propositions in the often depend on the popularity of the government of the day. We must win the referendum
Here and elsewhere i keep seeing/reading that ‘Boris is not a stupid man’ well …… maybe he is, just simply stupid. Bit like giving Forest Gump more credence than he deserved
@ Peter Kemp “‘Boris is not a stupid man”
Whatever else he is he is a scheming ambitious man whose ambition will always overrule his judgement. If there is a taxonomy of human characteristics – then personal ambition to satisfy his own needs will always comes top of the pile….. and if consistency and truth get in the way – then – the phrase doing a bit of sandpapering comes to mind.
Being able to conjugate a latin verb is no guarantee of high intelligence.
Surely, this shows what a complete waste an expensive ‘liberal’ (sic) arts education has been upon this young American Mr Johnson?
As a mere scientist I am aware that Hitler’s initial standpoint was never to conquer Britain – it was to create a united monolithic continental Europe with an emasculated and relatively isolated Britain faffing around on the edges. Not a million miles away from what is being promoted by…er…. Boris Johnson. 🙁
Discuss: “”In a time of universal deceit – telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” – George Orwell ”
P.S. If you have not seen it yet, this EU debate with Nick Clegg will have over 100,000 views like today – done by the Spectator.
All the best.
There is a difference between those who have wisdom and those who are cunning and scheming. In his interview with John Humphreys last week BJ appeared to deny things he had said only a moment beforehand. When Humphreys challenged him on this he was met by a flat denial that he had said any such thing. It was one of the most remarkable interviews I have ever heard and very good entertainment. He seems to have fooled a lot of people but he does not fool everybody. He has squandered billlions of pounds of public money in his bid for power, mostly for little benefit.
Oh dear – have I put my foot in it . I do hope so………
Hitler liked Anton Bruckner’s music. So do I.
Hitler played Cowboys and Indians as a kid…