Labour councillor arrested

Here we go again.

A former chairman of the Humberside Police Authority has been arrested in Northern Ireland on suspicion of gross indecency and other offences.

Hull City Councillor Steven Bayes, 45, was detained in the centre of Belfast on Monday morning. He has since been released on bail.

Full story on the BBC website.

I think it’s safe to say it’s not a good day, week or month to be a member of the Labour Party.

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80 Comments

  • Geoffrey Payne 4th Dec '07 - 5:34pm

    Are we going to hear about every local scandal in every part of the country (as long as it does not involve a Lib Dem)?
    This is a matter for the police, why debate it here?

  • Agreed Alex; it’s the context of yet another Labour councillor running into trouble with the law that makes this a story worthy of passing mention in a way that a one-off story when nothing else has happened might not be.

  • yawn, yawn. let’s not turn into the BNP-loving Stormfront site.

    Lib/ Con/ Lab old gang all pervs and villains

  • Gregory Carlin 4th Dec '07 - 8:22pm

    The PSNI only ask for premises in Britain to be searched if they think they are worth searching.

    They do not arrest former HPA chiefs for the fun of it.

    We have a Labour Party gauleiter here overlooking Law & Order.

    This is the land of Finucane, one rocks boats at one’s own risk.

    I can testify to the personal risks of upsetting the Home Office & NIO.

    N. Ireland is a very dangerous place to anger the Home Office. We have political irritation ‘by proxy’ in Ireland.

    The PSNI are certainly not usually allowed to arrest a party colleague of our Security Minister for the benefit of the BBC.

    The police here are refusing to name a suspect. They would name that person fairly quickly if he was UUP or DUP.

    Speaking generally without reference to any or this case.

    The PSNI have been urged to adopt FBI approaches to high risk behaviors and to respond proactively to child protection issues.

    I would not be surprised if the PSNI were to eventually (over a period of years) take over from the FBI as the UK’s primary police agency relating to pedophile networks.

    It is bizare that the UK has to be involved in offshore policing.

    The criminal science related to profiling is good and it is clearly an approach worth the taking.

    Nobody is in jail in the USA, Canada, Australia or New Zealand because of CEOP/SOCA and the other side of the coin has hundreds of thousands of leads being distributed by the FBI.

    Why it is that CEOP are tasked to respond to the FBI & RCMP belatedly rather than to do the work themselves, is a matter for your politicians.

    The general theory (in the USA) is that there is something very scary & sinister about the British teaching profession

    and that CEOP are not allowed to target LIST 99 referrals or high risk groups etc.

    It has certainly been the case that teachers in Britain were eventually (and reluctantly) targeted at the request of the FBI, for victimizing American & Canadian children, even though they had histories of industrial scale offending in Great Britain.

    To return to the specific case, if the PSNI have over-stepped the mark a police career will be history.

    I would imagine that the PSNI acted because they decided that they had no alternative.

    I am sorry Hull & Humberside are in the news again.

    I hope it works out positively.

    Gregory Carlin

    Director

    Irish Anti-Trafficking Coalition

  • Gregory Carlin 4th Dec '07 - 8:43pm

    “Lib/ Con/ Lab old gang all pervs and villains”

    I don’t want to make too much of this, but the Liberal Democrat policy on commercial child pornography is similar to the Dutch Pedophile Party on the same issue.

    I was part of discussions between Washington DC based NGOs and the Lib Dem HQ.

    The party is apparently going to dilute the SOA 2003 and legalize some child pornography.

    That is seemingly the policy of the Lib Dems.

    My own view is that the pornography sector in eastern Europe is up to its ears in murder, terrorism, child pornography & sex trafficking.

    At a practical level the Labour Party definitely did open up Jobcentre to sex traffickers, pedophiles and other dangerous criminals.

    My life was made a misery by the British govt. because I had the temerity to target Jerome Brennan.

    Mr. Brennan was a notorious criminal who was based in Ireland. He also went into the child sex trafficking business in Great Britain. He should have been stopped in his tracks in 2002.

    I accept that the Lib Dems are saying something they won’t do and the Labour Govt. is doing something they say only the Lib Dems want to do.

    That is surely perverted.

    Gregory Carlin

    Irish Anti-Trafficking Coalition

  • Gregory Carlin 4th Dec '07 - 8:59pm

    “Reading the Guardian report it says that Mr Bayes had been under surveillance, was arrested at 9am in his hotel room and “one report” says he was alone.”

    And searches in Britain requested. What do you think that means?

    The media reportage is highly damaging.

    People will read between the lines and quite possibly get the wrong answer.

    I am figuring that the PSNI are choking on glass & the PPSNI are wondering if I am going to show up.

    If this turns out, to be a political set-up based in Hull, there will be a very bitter revenge.

    The PSNI deserve to be protected from the scandal and blairite sleaze you people think is a working political system.

    You are one of the few countries not in Africa which might benefit from not having a Home Department or Justice Ministry.

    Gregory Carlin

    Irish Anti-Trafficking Coalition

  • Angus J Huck 4th Dec '07 - 9:41pm

    Am I alone in scratching my head wondering where all this innuendo and half reporting of Mr Carlin’s is actually meant to lead us?

    Does the Irish Anti-Trafficking Coalition have a web address?

  • Gregory Carlin 4th Dec '07 - 10:34pm

    “Am I alone in scratching my head wondering where all this innuendo and half reporting of Mr Carlin’s is actually meant to lead us?”

    Do the pedophile in a US jail test for me!

    If you can name a pedophile in jail in the USA or Canada because of Jim Gamble or CEOP you might want to broadcast it via FOX NEWS, it will come as a major miracle.

    CEOP do not detect pedophiles as a rule. They do do a bit of SOR missing alterts, but a semi-retired deputy sheriff in Oklahoma can do that.

    That is just PR of historic cases. Other people’s earlier work to be sure.

    The entire point of pedophile networks is that they are usually or almost invariably in more than one country.

    That is also true for the British examples.

    It is therefore impossible to be in the biz of putting them out of biz without helping the FBI or RCMP do arrests in the USA or Canada.

    Do you follow that useful & very simple logic?

    The FBI target many hundreds of thousands of culprits in *other* countries,

    and CEOP doesn’t catch networks (in the USA) *or* more remarkably even right under their very own noses in Britain etc.

    THIS IS THE POINT

    *Until* the FBI ask them (CEOP) to go fetch.

    The FBI become involved *because* they don’t like pedophiles as per instructions from AG of USA & Mr. President and

    often because a British teacher or care-worker or somebody is sexually grooming kids in Canada or USA etc.

    FBI then insist that CEOP go fetch because victims have politicians (@ Congress etc) that care and who will cause trouble.

    Do you follow?

  • Gregory Carlin 4th Dec '07 - 10:46pm

    “Mr Carlin has clearly never actually come across a copy of the Liberal Democrats’ policy on pornography, the main feature of which is in fact to crack down on exploitation of individuals (especially women, but also children) in the making of pornography.”

    The Lib Dem policy is exactly as described by the political editor of The Independent.

    Proposal To Allow 16-Year-Olds
    To Appear In Explicit Porn
    By Andy McSmith
    Political Editor
    The Independent – UK
    3-21-4

    I was interested in any politican party which was iffy on child pornmography.

    The Naastenliefde, Vrijheid en Diversiteit policy in the Netherlands was identical to the Lib Dem policy in many respects.

    In fact some of the Dutch pedophiles thought their own policy proposal was copied directly from the Lib Dem document.

    The Hungarian pedophiles on the other hand wanted ’14′ as their target for their campaign and were not too happy about the ‘commercial’ aspects of the Lib Dem policy.

    The Hungarians said that bringing money into it was not really the way for organized pedophiles in the European Union.

  • Angus J Huck 4th Dec '07 - 11:27pm

    Gregory Carlin wrote:

    “Do you follow?”

    No.

    You are sputtering out a mixture of facts and opinions in a somewhat inchoate fashion without actually telling us who you are, what your organisation is, and what it is that you know about Councillor Bayes and his arrest that you think LDV readers should also know.

    Most LDV readers, I think, are completely unacquainted with the people and issues you are reeling off.

    So, would you please be so kind as to tell us the following:-

    (1) Who or what is the Irish Anti-Trafficking Coalition?

    (2) What is it that you know about Councillor Bayes and his arrest that has not been reported by the major media outlets?

    I notice that you spell the word, “paedophile”, the North American way (without the extra “e”). Am I therefore right in taking it that you are a North American? Or is the North American spelling current in the Republic of Ireland?

    Gregory Carlin further wrote:-

    “The Lib Dem policy is exactly as described by the political editor of The Independent.

    Proposal To Allow 16-Year-Olds
    To Appear In Explicit Porn
    By Andy McSmith
    Political Editor
    The Independent – UK
    3-21-4″

    I think you will find that this is part and parcel of the party’s policy of having a universal age of majority at 16. If one is permitted to perform the acts at 16, then it seems rather strange that one is forbidden from performing those acts on film.

    What do you feel about the 17 year-old Daniel Radcliffe acting in the “soft porn” play, “Equus”? I cannot recall anyone suggesting that Radcliffe’s performance, distasteful though many might have found it, amounted to child pornography or paedophilia.

  • Gregory Carlin 4th Dec '07 - 11:49pm

    I headed up discussions with Lib Dem HQ on the topic.

    It is not my fault the broader extent of the party is possibly a little inward looking.

    Did you really thnk the FBI & Dept. of Justice would spend all that money and the taxpayers groups and their politicians in the US would not care?

    Are your Brits really that self-centered?

    It is naive to think like that. President Bush was obliged to act for our issues. It probably gave him Ohio.

    I would at times, BTW, do the small details for visiting US delegations relating to sex trafficking & child pornography.

    I also have read the Clywch inquiry, and I am aware of the interest in Equus by organized pedophile groups.

    The Lib Dem policy is similar to the Dutch pedophile party’s policy and as far as both CEOP and the FBI are concerned it (U18) is child pornography.

    So it is also part and parcel of that kind of thing, so much so in fact that pedophiles in Europe view it as falling with the same strand of activism.

    “I think you will find that this is part and parcel of the party’s policy of having a universal age of majority at 16. If one is permitted to perform the acts at 16, then it seems rather strange that one is forbidden from performing those acts on film.”

    Not strange to the police.

    The police in Britain will arrest people for doing it (SOA 2003) at the moment and it will be reported in the newspapers as pedophiles making child pornography etc.

    The FBI & United Nations are on a similarly U18 page.

    “Most LDV readers, I think, are completely unacquainted with the people and issues you are reeling off.”

    I don’t really think so my friend.

    LIST 99 referrals doubled between 2003 and 2005 by the way. Lord Laird found that out for us.

    You can always write to him and ask him if any Americans have traveled over asking about Brit teachers etc.

    I am sure he’ll be neighborly. It is all one big collegiate House of Lords.

    Gregory Carlin

    Irish Anti-Trafficking Coalition

  • Wow, this thread has really brought the fruit-cakes out…

  • Angus J Huck 5th Dec '07 - 12:05am

    Gregory Carlin wrote:-

    “I don’t really think so my friend.

    LIST 99 referrals doubled between 2003 and 2005 by the way. Lord Laird found that out for us.”

    (1) I am not your “friend”. I haven’t a clue who you are.

    (2) You then go on to refer to “LIST 99″ and “Lord Laird”. I (a generally well-informed person) have heard of neither.

    Mr Carlin, you sound to me as if you are living in some kind of dream world. Good communication requires an understanding of your audience. Clearly, whatever you might be, you are not a politician, PR man or advertising executive!

    BTW, you have still to answer my two questions. And I’m not holding my breath!

    (Has it occurred to you that calling consenting sexual acts between 17 year-olds “paedophilia” might actually serve to palliate real child abuse?)

  • Gregory Carlin 5th Dec '07 - 12:09am

    “What is it that you know about Councillor Bayes and his arrest that has not been reported by the major media outlets?”

    He is an innocent man at this point. I hope things work out well for him.

    I am however very interested in issues related to Humberside & Soham generally.

    I have however no prior interest in that gentleman.

    Hypothetically,

    If he has been set-up by dirty tricks or over-zealous actions, there will be hell to pay.

    The PSNI are to be protected at all costs. They are the only police that we have.

    Speaking generally.

    We don’t like the way teacher vetting is being handled, we don’t like CEOP and we think the Home Office & DfES were child protection disaster areas.

    For example, we pleaded with the DfES in 2005 not to allow FBI targeted pedophiles into your primary schools and we were lied to.

    They were allowing very high risk people into schools to give swimming lessons etc. to little kids.

    Also

    Humberside & the teaching profession there is a major project for us.

    I can tell you that much.

    Gregory Carlin

    Director

    Irish Anti-trafficking Coalition

  • Gregory Carlin 5th Dec '07 - 12:12am

    “You then go on to refer to “LIST 99″ and “Lord Laird”. I (a generally well-informed person) have heard of neither.”

    Well I shall leave you to google Hansard.

    Many US experts have flown over to the UK to try to find out why so many US & Canadian kids are beig victimized via the internet by British teachers.

    I hope that helps.

    Gregory Carlin

    Irish Anti-Trafficking Coalition

  • Dan Falchikov 5th Dec '07 - 12:26am

    I hope Mark Pack has learnt an important lesson by posting this tripe (and the reaction it’s caused).

    Liberals should not be bothered by what consenting adults get up to in private. In my experience ‘gross indecency’ is the phrase used by unenlightened coppers for hanging around public toilets hoping to entrap middle aged homosexuals (most of whom ‘came of age’ when it was illegal).

    I frankly don’t care what this councillor got up to – I do care about the waste of police resources as there is no chance this ‘charge’ will result in a prosecution (let alone a conviction).

    Mark is playing a very dangerous game – I’d bet for every Labour or Tory politician caught in similar circumstance there are two Lib Dems.

    Let’s leave this to the morons on Conservative Home who think this sort of thing is unpatriotic or whatever…

  • Gregory Carlin 5th Dec '07 - 12:36am

    “Leave your paedophile smears at the door, please, when your own ‘evidence’ shows they’re a lie.”

    What I am saying is the de jure reality.

    U18 pornography is child abuse.

    One can always report alleged smears of whatever kind to the police and get the Lib Dems a few losing headlines.

    I don’t mind, I will win (here) in front of our Lord Chief Justice.

    I am on very safe ground. One may also find that the Lib Dems alienate the Alliance Party as a result.

    U18 sexual photography is child pornography in the UK, USA and as far as the UN & UNICEF etc. are concerned it should also be U18.

    That is the de jure position in the UK.

    The Dutch Pedophile Party have similar views on commercial child pornography as the Liberal Democrats.

    It is also true some Dutch pedophiles were of a view that the Partij voor Naastenliefde, Vrijheid en Diversiteit copied some of the Dutch policy from the Lib Dems.

    Basically, both policies were essentially the same in places.

    The politicals in Holland were in a bit of a rush to get up and going and it is not impossible they borrowed suitable material.

    The following type of material and statements were made in Holland by the political pedophiles there.

    “Toddlers should be given sex education and youths aged 16 and up should be allowed to appear in pornographic films and prostitute themselves.”

    The Lib Dems were kinder to animals than some of the Dutch politicians it has to be said.

    Other than that both political parties had very strong similarities in certain areas.

    Gregory Carlin

    Irish Anti-Trafficking Coalition.

  • Gregory Carlin 5th Dec '07 - 12:52am

    Gays don’t need and don’t want additional rights.

    If it is wrong for a heterosexual teacher to masturbate or have sex in public and still teach, it has to be wrong for everybody.

    Or, right (for both) in the Dutch pedophile view. I haven’t checked the Lib Dem policy on teachers recently. It has to be the same for gay & hetero.

    It would potentially be homophobic (in my view) to portray gay people as more inclined to sexual deviance than heterosexuals.

    Most of our IATC business is heterosexuals targeting girls across the EU.

    People like Jerome Brennan, the lord of the lap-dance etc.

    I am under no pressure chasing gay sex tourists in Prague or Lithuania etc.

    I am just pointing out that a proper legislative framework should have everybody equal before the law.

    Gregory Carlin

    Irish Anti-Trafficking Coalition

  • Gregory Carlin 5th Dec '07 - 1:04am

    “I hope Mark Pack has learnt an important lesson by posting this tripe (and the reaction it’s caused).”

    Self-censorship is an art. I went for weeks trying not to mention Abu Ghraib or US prison guards.

    I did however take the trouble to blitz a few of Amanda Knox’s friends in Seattle in relation to Clallam Bay and a propensity to blame blacks.

    I’ve added three asterixes in the url. Things haven’t really changed much in WA.

    “Prison Legal News – Legal articles, cases and court decisionsDay as “Happy N***er Day” at Clallam Bay. Two groups of black guards, one from Clallam Bay and one from the Washington Corrections Center at Shelton, …
    https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/(S(jzlboducbxwtd2ewxhoy5v45))/78_displayNews.aspx – 76k – Cached – Similar pages ”

    The IATC press library is (BTW) maintained in Seattle.

    You know what us rich white pro-Bush folks are like.

    Gregory Carlin

    Irish Anti-Trafficking Coalition

  • I agree with Alex and Dan on this. Perhaps he is innocent. Perhaps he is guilty. Perhaps the LD Waltham Forest cllr mentioned by “CLP” in the “Where are they now” thread is innocent. Perhaps he is guilty. All parties get this sort of thing from time to time. We should not rejoice in others misfortunes. Where a crime has been committed, let justice take its course.

    Those who live in glass houses, etc etc.

  • Gregory Carlin 5th Dec '07 - 1:28am

    “LDV, Please do us all a favour (note spelling) and delete this story and all its posts.”

    Wow, all its posts.

    The Liberal Democrats are quite fond of censorship when it comes down to it.

    Thankfully I’ve already saved & mirrored it.

    I certainly wouldn’t want to misrepresent the views of keen Liberal Democrats at a future date.

    Thanks for the input.

    Gregory Carlin

    Irish Anti-Trafficking Coalition

  • Hywel Morgan 5th Dec '07 - 10:11am

    Dan – I entirely agree

    The response to this post could easily go:
    Frank Beck
    Neil Derbyshire
    Bill Chadwick
    etc

  • Peter Welch 5th Dec '07 - 10:27am

    I agree with Alex at 1 Hywel, and Dan. I don’t think LDV should be running these stories.

  • Gregory, take another one of your red and yellow pills. You clearly forgot yesterday’s dose…

  • Gregory Carlin 5th Dec '07 - 10:52am

    We don’t know where the Belfast/Hull case is going yet. Or if there is a case. We have to wait and see.

    As for inherited British institutional abuses relative to belatedly convicted culprits be they Libs or whatever.

    The solution to the historic abuses is to act upon them before they become historic. Britain goes from scandal, to crisis, to cover-up, to etc.

    Let us look at what Sarah Teather has been asking at the MoP.

    Why was Ms Teather not as obviously worried about kids as teachers in her PQs?

    (this is of course my own spin, if I had two things to worry about )

    What’s worse, being filmed naked in a shower and put on the internet by teacher or being biffed on the nose by little Tommy?

    I bet without leaving the BBC’s news web-site, without the FBI squirting anybody a fax, or anybody else helping, you people here, on this little forum …

    Could find more kids abused via child pornography by teachers in Britain than teachers being assaulted (HSE logged) as per the period Sarah Teather was interested in.

    “There were 221 attacks on teachers last year alone, and 1,128 between 2000 and 2006, information revealed by the Liberal Democrats shows”

    I am basically saying a total of 1,128 wouldn’t be that difficult to find, with sexual intent, with filming, with the police being involved etc.

    I can pull a count out of the FBI/RCMP and get to that total in a handful of British teachers.

    I bet, a similar number of kids were used for child pornography, which is known to the police, than the number of teachers with black eyes as per Sarah’s PQ.

    What’s worse, sore eye or being on a child porn web-site for eternity?

  • Gregory Carlin 5th Dec '07 - 10:58am

    “I agree with Alex at 1 Hywel, and Dan. I don’t think LDV should be running these stories.”

    Donald Rumsfeld would like that attitude, that is his style, least said the better. Abu Ghraib, ban cameras!

    Hacks asking about the Iraqi girls?

    Bung the Washington Post some more male photos and make them even worse than the first lot.

    G.

  • Meirion Gwril 5th Dec '07 - 2:10pm

    Wow – what a nutter
    and he still won’t say anything about his “organization”
    Time for the men in the white coats to take this loony away, methinks

  • Gregory Carlin 5th Dec '07 - 5:16pm

    I can handle personal abuse, it is what you people do, Lib Dems by default often take that route as a matter of course.

    I mean, look at the way you treat your own people. Your party is a sixth form out of control with policies to match.

    I did also take the confessional point that some were quick to illustrate, that being arrested in a hotel room was essentially a Lib Dem trait.

    Let us return to Sarah Teather MP, & the compulsive hugging of the teacher unions,

    the UK has the highest rates of sexual abuse (by educators) of schoolchildren in the developed world.

    Sarah Teather, basically revealed, if we combine her PQs with Lord Laird’s, that LIST 99 referrals, the apex of child endangerment had what ratio?

    “There were 221 attacks on teachers last year alone, and 1,128 between 2000 and 2006, information revealed by the Liberal Democrats shows”

    So if there were about 2,500 LIST 99 referrals in 2,005, in just one year, what does that mean?

    1,128 (HSE) biffed teacher noses in six years versus 2,500 sex cases, mentally deranged educators, teacher/pupil ‘relationships’ or related in one year and so.

    The Lib Dems are entirely dismissive of child protection. You are not the party of young people’s rights,

    The Lib Dems are the party of the dirty old teacher who thinks he has a right to use schoolgirls as a sexual resource.

    The striking similarities between Lib Dem polcies and pro-pedophile politics in the Netherlands, are not really accidental, are they?

    Gregory Carlin

    Irish Anti-Trafficking Coalition

  • I don’t like to silence anybody, but Gregory Carlin’s contributions are incoherent, potentially libellous, and he declines to answer direct questions or clarify some of his more opaque remarks.

    And it’s boring!

    So can he be silenced … please

    After all, he can still use the Irish Anti-Trafficking Coalition as a platform!

    Gwyn Griffiths
    Cheshire Anti-Nonsense Coalition

  • Hywel Morgan 5th Dec '07 - 5:54pm
  • Gregory Carlin 5th Dec '07 - 6:14pm

    The stated objective publicized on the school web-site & to the parents was a gender free environment.

    Worth objecting to in its own right.

    The parents were not consulted and didn’t agree with such a radical concept. The policy was illegal, though privately encouraged by the DfES.

    The DfES & EOC also had meetings in relation to sexual assault, it was thought that trousers would better protect girls from etc.

    That was reflected on the school uniform advice displayed on the old EOC web-site.

    It is probably still included in the ‘school uniform’ advice offered by the combined body.

    “personal safety: girls may be able to run faster in trousers than a skirt and they may be less vulnerable to indecent assault”

    Once the EOC/DfES meetings on protecting male teachers from false allegations, became known, it was essentially over.

    The DfES had a slightly different take than the EOC had.

    Both EOC/DfES meeting around the sexist concept of dress & attire inviting the abuse etc.

  • Gregory Carlin 5th Dec '07 - 6:23pm

    “don’t like to silence anybody, but Gregory Carlin’s contributions are incoherent, potentially libellous, and he declines to answer direct questions or clarify some of his more opaque remarks.”

    Go get a Lib Dem barrister to try!

    So, don’t be silly, if somebody wants to pull the usual Lib Dem court/libel/ hate crime stunt, go ahead!

    I will just fly over Dutch political pedophiles and the High Court can approve a translator.

    The Dutch pedophiles are like the Lib Dems, they are PROUD of their policies & the ideas are in many respects identical.

    Proposal To Allow 16-Year-Olds
    To Appear In Explicit Porn
    By Andy McSmith
    Political Editor
    The Independent – UK
    3-21-4

    THe Lib Dems definitely want to legalize some child pornography and so do the Dutch political pedophiles, the two policies are very similar.

    One policy judicially compared with the next, I am up for that.

    Go call your lawyers.

    Best wishes

    Gregory Carlin

    Irish Anti-Trafficking Coalition

  • Gregory Carlin 5th Dec '07 - 6:38pm

    “I don’t like to silence anybody”

    Lib Dems love censorship, it is what you thrive on. That is no where better illustrated than this forum.

    Ask Sarah Teather MP to explain why she is so worried by one itsy bitsy HSE assault a day when I can point her towards a single Brit teacher, who sexually victimized 261 schoolgirls.

    He managed that *after* he was banned from every school in Bedfordshire!

    That also doesn’t count what he did before. He was protected by a system which will move mountains to protect sexually deviant teachers.

    And that is before we talk about the grand total of the other couple of thousand teacher abusers.

    So, it is not boring, it is comparable to Abu Ghraib, or the Roma abuse in the Czech Republic.

    It is *worse* than what the Catholic Church was found to be doing in the USA over fifty years.

    I defy you to compare 50 years of Catholic abuses in the USA with five years of LIST 99 referrals by your teachers in England and Wales!

    Gregory Carlin

    Irish Anti-Trafficking Coalition

  • Angus J Huck 5th Dec '07 - 6:58pm

    “Gregory Carlin is a human rights lawyer”

    Is he?

    Then let him list his qualifications.

    No English lawyer thinks the Lord Chief Justice presides over libel trials! There are two specialist Queens Bench judges who do that. Also, English lawyers use UK English.

    Gregory Carlin claims that the “Irish Anti-Trafficking Coalition” is affiliated to the Roman Catholic Church. Could the Roman Catholic Church please confirm this?

  • Calm down Gregory, I’m not threatening anyobody with legal action!

    Others,
    I have checked out the IATC on a few sites and it appears a complex story. It lists a Belfast address, yet what appears to be its website seems to be based in Canada. And Mr Carlin’s use of English suggests he is a North American.
    Its main focii of attention seem to be Canada and Northern Ireland. It also seems to highlight some serious issues (e.g. Canadian practice of allowing work permits for “exotic dancers”, with suggestions many end up in exploitative roles), but also some rather strange “causes”. E.g. it appears that the age of consent in N Ireland is 17 – in the Republic and GB it is of course 16. Attempts to harmonise at 16 are criticised by IATC – well by Gregory Carlin, speaking for the IATC.

    Hope that’s a fair summary, though Mr Carlin may – at length – dispute that!

  • Gregory Carlin 5th Dec '07 - 7:19pm

    I think about 20 percent of your organized sex migration & trafficking arrests in 2004 was done to me and my friends.

    That is going by the US State Dept. TIP report.

    I would never dream of offering you Home Office stats. So that is at best a guess by officials in Washington DC.

    Who knows? If the real stats were on a Brit govt. CD they’d be lost.

    I cut my human rights teeth (years ago) working jail abuse campaigns in the USA.

    The UN Mission to the USA etc.

    In Ireland.

    No lib dem lawyers would venture to play over in Northern Ireland anyway. They would just lose.

    That is not the society they have there, your politics are wrong for Ireland.

    The Alliance Party are also increasingly queasy about Lib Dem extremism.

    I think you will find that most teacher related stuff (if it goes the distance) will end up in front of the Lord Chief Justice if only to bring a saga to its appropriate end.

    The NASUWT false allegation campaign for example crashed and burned here in a three minute sitting before the LCJ & with the union paying costs.

    I will tell you a secret.

    The police in the UK contacted legal professionals in the USA for help with that particular NASUWT case.

    Best wishes

    Gregory Carlin

    Irish Anti-Trafficking Coalition

  • Angus J Huck 5th Dec '07 - 7:24pm

    Mr Carlin, what are your legal qualifications?

  • Gregory Carlin 5th Dec '07 - 7:27pm

    “It lists a Belfast address, yet what appears to be its website seems to be based in Canada.”

    The (web) press library is maintained by a close neighbor of Bill Gates. So that is the part of the free world where it might be.

    Pacific North West in other words. The server could be anywhere I suppose given the way technology works.

    I don’t know where the media archive is physically electrified.

    Vatican web-sites carry my stuff, I don’t run any of them.

    Also pro-family and neo-conservative sites. I have no interest in those either.

    The UN do a bit and other NGOs will frequently refer to me or work with me.

    I am definitely supported by pro-Bush politics, that is self-evident.

    Gregory Carlin

    Irish Anti-trafficking Coalition

  • Gregory Carlin 5th Dec '07 - 7:38pm

    “Our party wants a common citizenship age and therefore feels that if you’re allowed to have sex, you should be allowed to film yourself, this would CHANGE the de jure definition of child pornography under UK law.”

    It would also make the UK the number one producer of child pornography (U18) in the world.

    The UN/FBI view of things is U18 material is child pornography. THat is where the normal people are at.

    And every Gary Glitter type with a camera & a fake passport would be there in a shot.

    Brit teachers would crank up production at their end as well. The few barriers that exist to restrain them would be gone.

    Much of the child pornography is material used as child pornography and can often be traced to eccentric habits of Brit teachers.

    The bizarre filming in British schoools and the relaxed storage is a problem.

    The Lib Dem policy would make Britain the number one producer of child pornography in the world.

    The UK would regain a position as a major or industrial scale provider of child pornography.

    Gregory Carlin

  • Gregory Carlin 5th Dec '07 - 7:48pm

    “with his half baked ill informed campaigns of half truths.”

    That is the Sarah Teather MP school of boring stats that the DfES is prepared to safely offer.

    The emphasis is on the fact the teaching unions ( and Lib Dems) don’t mind some stats being safely collected.

    Try asking how many teachers have been convicted of sex crime or narcotics, brothel-keeping etc. and the response is that stats are not kept.

    Your govt. keeps detailed stats on assaults, burgers, chips and the blades of grass in schools but not on sexual misconduct by teachers.

    Why is that as if I need to ask?

    I think the Lib Dems are definitely in the half-truth stat biz.

    Gregory Carlin

  • oh well, I tried to engage in normal discussion but I think I’ll give up.

    Mr Carlin, if you want to be taken seriously, can I suggest that:
    a) you write in a way which makes sense;
    b) you answer perfectly reasonable questions asked;
    c) you conduct yourself generally in a way which doesn’t make you appear a monomaniac fantasist!

    Good night!

  • Gregory Carlin 5th Dec '07 - 8:44pm

    I think mania and orwellian group-think are the defining aspects of Lib Dem political culture.

    For example, you didn’t invest a second’s thought as to whether the Lib Dem U18 porn fetish policies would attract child pornographers to the UK.

    The Lib Dems didn’t bother to debate that because the same child pornography types, would be their voters and future funders.

    The policy would clearly attract child pornographers to Britain.

    Why make the stuff in the USA and get fifty years in a BOP facility when the Lib Dems will arrange for a profitable legal avenue and a porn peerage.

    The policy paper’s reference to ‘consent’ was also a blatant red herring, the Brits do not prosecute coercion relating to adult pornography.

    If they did, there would be evidence of prosecutions, investigations or referrals to other police overseas agencies.

    The Lib Dems cobbled together a pack of pro-porn drivel and called it liberal enlightenment.

    That Sarah Teather MP stuff was also a red herring, why didn’t she try to find out how many children were assaulted or harmed by teachers, *both* sides of the coin?

    I’ve read the PQs, it was teacher union hugging, something the Lib Dems do instead of joined-up thinking.

    Gregory Carlin

    Irish Anti-Trafficking Coalition

  • Gregory Carlin 5th Dec '07 - 8:59pm

    “Its main focii of attention seem to be Canada”

    I had nothing (contrary to rumor) to do with any of Pierre Pettigrew’s chauffeur reportage.

    ‘ Pettigrew’s staff says that driver Bruno Labonté has “some responsibilities that are not on his official job description.” ‘

    westernstandard.blogs.com

    You can mark me down as an interested observer though.

    I was targeting the juvenile sex trafficking antics of the last Liberal govt.

    The Liberals were helping out organized crime and conducting ministerial business in strip clubs.

    They were never quite brave enough to copy the Lib Dem policies on U18 pornography.

    That would lose too many votes.

    Gregory Carlin

    Irish Anti-Trafficking Coalition

  • Martin Land 5th Dec '07 - 9:29pm

    Getting back to the subject of this thread… It’s a real shame to see Hull being dragged through it again. I spent three of the best misspent years of my youth studying politics there and have a tremendous affection for the place. I’m told our administration are doing a sterling job there with the most tenuous of majorities and could probably do without the negative publicity this incident will generate for the City.

    On the other hand, in those far off days, it was always accepted wisdom that the Tories would always be caught by sex scandals and Labour with their hands in someone else’s pockets. It’s great to see in these more egalitarian days that they are both being far more indiscriminate and not hidebound by tradition.

  • Sorry Martin, I’m fascinated by what Mr Carlin has to say. He clearly needs someone to vent his outpourings too and it is always the wrong thing to turn away someone who is in distress.

    Perhaps if we gave him a nice metaphoric cup of hot tea, and some space to say what he really wants to say then maybe we’ll get to the end of this.

    It does seem a shame that he isn’t engaging in dialogue or attempting to understand the intellectual arguments we propose, but this must be as a result of some deep seated psychological response possibly emanating from personal experience. So we can’t deny him that.

    If he’s got an axe to grind then let’s test his mettle and offer him a bit of patience.

    We’re listening…

  • Talking of scandalous behaviour, I’d like to know what people think about Lee Jasper…

  • Gregory Carlin 5th Dec '07 - 11:22pm

    “Getting back to the subject of this thread… It’s a real shame to see Hull being dragged through it again. I spent three of the best misspent years of my youth studying politics there and have a tremendous affection for the place.”

    I tended to stay in Newcastle, Manchester or Liverpool.

    I had friends who went to college in Hull, we made a variety of records together. The stuff is still popular in Scandanavia and eastern Europe.

    In my old age, I am more more often tweaked by a fond nostalgia for London. That’s changed as well, everything changes.

    I’ll probably end up selling tea or snowboards in Vermont. I don’t think I can do Texas.

    I quite liked living in Canning Town, in the 1970s, because it was a bit different.

    I am presently having enough problems with getting my head around Ireland. meet seems to be rich.

    Where did the money come from, I must have blinked and missed it.

  • Gregory Carlin 5th Dec '07 - 11:40pm

    “On the other hand, in those far off days, it was always accepted wisdom that the Tories would always be caught by sex scandals and Labour with their hands in someone else’s pockets.”

    The most bad-mannered form of lying is when they know, that you know, they are lying, that sums up Blairism.

    There may be some truth to the idea that the Lib-Dems tell you the deal to your face. I am not pretending I like the Lib Dems or anything.

    Even Pettigrew in Canada, it took 15 minutes for both our sides to know that it was to the bitter end, no attempt at sweetening out a non-personal kind of politics.

    The Tories in private at least, will tend to do the right thing. THey might write a letter saying X but call you on the phone to explain it is really Y.

    For determined, implausible dishonesty, it was hard to beat Tony Blair.

    I think you will also find that the Iraq issue has clouded a few things once viewed as certain.

    Tony Blair is for example soooo not us. But we are definitely stuck with him.

    He is a creature of that damned war.

    G.

  • Hywel Morgan 6th Dec '07 - 12:02am

    16-18 year olds certainly featured topless in mainstream newspapers in the 80s and until fairly recently. Sam Fox and Linzi Dawn Mackenzie both made their page 3 “debuts” aged 16. The law has changed since then but I suspect there are still plenty of copies of pictures around.

    AIUI Australia has an age 16 limit on its definition of child pornography and numerous European countries have lower actual ages of consent than the UK.

    As to the UN definition the Convention on the rights of the Child states:
    “a child means every human being below the age of eighteen years unless under the law applicable to the child, majority is attained earlier.”

    Our policy is that the age of majority would be reduced to 16.

    The UK has also signed but not ratified the protocol on Child pornography

  • Gregory Carlin 6th Dec '07 - 1:13am

    U18 will be the global & standard definition of child pornography.

    The Sport newspaper was a perv rag, they combined narratives & images along the usual pedophile themes.

    It was a useful tool for tracking criminals & terrorists associated with sex traficking.

    Numerous police actions were derived from the Sport’s pages.

    Child pornography has not been criminalized in many countries.

    In 2006 there were ninety five who had still to do so. The age definition of ’16′ does not mean that 17 is legal BTW.

    You may find that countries with legalized prostitution will prosecute commercial U18 sexual activities.

    Post office box addresses in the Northern Territory, were used to distribute pornography of all types in Australia.

    The blackmarket porn trade has badly damaged the legal industry.

    It was (last year) possible to buy child pornography (of any age) in a networks of Australian retailers. It was illegal, but it was possible.

    Similarly, child pornography is still sold via retail outlets in the UK.

    It is quite difficult to get titles removed by the police.

    Pornography is not really policed to any extent in Great Britain. It is a Customs & Excise activity more than anything.

    Gregory Carlin

    IATC

  • passing (well, virtually live-in) tory 6th Dec '07 - 10:19am

    Gregory,

    You write as though you live under bridges and feed on innocent passers-by. If you were to string your brain dumps into some form of coherrant argument then it might be quite interesting to hear what you have to say. As it is, you just read like a Turing test on crack.

  • Hywel Morgan 6th Dec '07 - 11:52am

    For a lawyer a lot of this is surprisingly unsourced but I’d be interested if you could source some of the claims above (59).

    I’m not aware of any prosecutions involving the Sport or the nature of them but there was a case of one of the Nuts/Zoo stable of magazines getting in a small amount of hot water for carrying a topless picture of a girl of 14 a few months back. The amount of trouble they got into was pretty minimal in my opinion given that it suggested a massive lack of checks as to age and consent regarding the photographs they were running. (there is a wider issue about the prevalence of camera phones and distribution of photos that people might wish had not been taken).

    “Similarly, child pornography is still sold via retail outlets in the UK.”

    “It is quite difficult to get titles removed by the police.”

    Those are both pretty major allegations which really do need some substantive evidence to back them up.

  • passing (well, virtually live-in) tory 6th Dec '07 - 12:15pm

    Hywel,

    The odds are that you are talking to a machine and it doesn’t care :-)

  • Gregory Carlin 6th Dec '07 - 1:30pm

    The Sport newspaper listed sexual services & enterprises, it was obvious that much of that would be connected to interesting places like Limerick etc.

    Gangsterism and terrorism comes directly into play at that point.

    The Veronica Guerin syndrome if you prefer to look at it from that perspective.

    The police in Belfast also used the Sport newspaper as a quick and ready primer to find out what sex traffickers and UDA pimps were up to or where they were.

    So when one went into the South Belfast News office (Belfast media group), they would be using that (Sport) as a rough guide to the cell-phones & premises which were in play that week etc.

    I would know this because the stories the media were reporting would relate to our & UUP political campaigns directed towards the UDA brothels or Lithuanian pimps in Belfast or Northern Ireland.

    One issue, might spin out and cause a hundred news stories, Jerome Brennan for example, he simply ate up newsprint, when Cabinet ministers argued with each other in the Commons (about Brennan) it just got more intense.

    I know the Australian problems because children as young as 12 were working in brothels and the regular pornography trade was in trouble because of black market material and sex trafficking, much of which was organized via the Northern territories.

    http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,21961136-5006301,00.html

    I know this, because we are a global movement sponsored by the US govt. and the pedophiles, pimps & traffickers are also a gobal movement.

    The Equus issue for example was used by teachers to have ‘special interest’ meetings in England etc. They were not your regular drama gig.

    As far as I was concerned they were just pedophiles. I took the same view on Equus as the (late) Children’s Commissioner in Wales.

    Gregory Carlin

    Irish Anti-Trafficking Coalition

  • Gregory Carlin 6th Dec '07 - 1:45pm

    “The odds are that you are talking to a machine and it doesn’t care ”

    Are you a tory?

    We arranged ‘happy’ meetings for your top people in DC.

    The tories were desperate to look relevant in the USA.

    Pictures with US people more famous than themselves etc.

    The conservative folks were also asked to do the Lord Laird PQs before Lord Laird.

    The tories declined to assist because they were far too scared of the teaching unions.

    That certainly didn’t go down well in Washington DC.

    How do we know the Tories won’t be frightened of Muslim groups next week?

    The Tory party people conceded the teaching unions false allegation campaigns were fraudulent.

    Which is what the Lord Chief Justice in Northern Ireland also clearly thought.

    Difficult to tell, he bundled the NASUWT out of his court in three minutes flat (they had to pay costs).

    Lord Laird then had to step in and do the heroic questions the tories were too timid to entertain.

    Sarah Teather clearly wasn’t going to do them either. The Lib Dems were as keen to assist a bogus campaign by the teaching unions as the tories.

    It is a strange world, one minute it is lunch with the really famous, next minute a little request for assistance and the tories went into heart attack mode!

    Thank goodness we didn’t ask them to endorse a diversion into Iran.

    If the tories won’t stand up to a few pervert Brit teachers, they are not going to be much use in a war.

    Kind regards

    Gregory Carlin

    Irish Anti-Trafficking Coalition

  • Gregory Carlin 6th Dec '07 - 2:33pm

    “there was a case of one of the Nuts/Zoo stable of magazines getting in a small amount of hot water for carrying a topless picture of a girl of 14 a few months back. The amount of trouble they got into was pretty minimal in my opinion given that it suggested a massive lack of checks as to age and consent regarding the photographs they were running.”

    In the USA, one gets them for what one can get them for.

    One prefers fifty years in jail, but taking every cent they own also works towards justice.

    ‘Girls Gone Wild’ Guy Indicted for Tax Evasion
    http://www.kltv.com/global/story.asp?s=6360693&ClientType=Printable
    04/12/07

    ‘Joe Francis, the creator of the video series “Girls Gone Wild,” has been indicted for federal tax evasion for deducting more than $20 million in false business expenses.

    In September 2006, he pleaded guilty to sexual exploitation charges for using minors in the videos that Francis and Mantra Films produced in 2002 and 2003. Under federal law, producers of adult videos are required to keep records validating that the individuals in the videos are adults. Mantra Films failed to produce those records on several instances.’

    Pornography is not really policed in the UK, also,

    most cases of child abuse & sex trafficking at strip clubs in the UK were probably revealed by me.

    When one factors in that I am working on Canada, Prague, Limerick, Dublin etc. and that Britain is a fifteen minute intervention when I get the time, that is appalling.

    I can get the stats if you like, but in 2002, if we throw in Ireland, I closed more brothels than all the police agencies in England & Wales combined.

    I think the Home Office official said I had done a couple of dozen, and the entire gig in E&W was 12, for 2002. The conversation would be mid-2003.

  • Gregory Carlin 6th Dec '07 - 2:47pm

    passing (well, virtually live-in) tory Says:
    December 6th, 2007 at 10:19 am

    “You write as though you live under bridges and feed on innocent passers-by. If you were to string your brain dumps into some form of coherrant argument then it might be quite interesting to hear what you have to say. As it is, you just read like a Turing test on crack.”

    Do you want me to arrange a media article in North America naming the conservative politicians who fled at the Lord Laird PQs?

    I will do that for you if you like.

    I could have it ready for next Monday and request it squirted to 400 reliable US journalists.

    We can, to highlight the local interest at the Brit end, also name a few schools in Tory constituencies where the teachers are a bit of a problem.

    Humberside for example.

    Your party will leave US soldiers on the beach.

    Any political party terrified of a few prevert teachers is not going to keep soldiers on the field of honor with its allies.

    Gregory Carlin

  • Gregory Carlin 6th Dec '07 - 3:19pm

    “It is quite difficult to get titles removed by the police.”

    CEOP have no apparent role, do I need to say more?

    It is like many Brit polcing scams, to deal with U18 aspects of the adult sex trade, one has to police ‘pornography’.

    That is so obviously the case it shouldn’t have to be stated.

    The primary CEOP dealings with the adult sex trade are as colleagues & partners.

    For example the EU de-recognized a EU conference for the first time in the history of the EU because of CEOP.

    CEOP allowed porn merchants to attend a EU child protection conference.

    I could also suggest that the FBI have sent packets re: child pornography everywhere, many hundreds of thousands of targets etc.

    Have CEOP *ever* sent anything to the USA or Canada?

    Is there one single pedophile in jail in the USA because of CEOP?

    They are ‘a spook’ agency.

    They have also been ordered to stay away from Brit teachers.

    LIST 99 referrals for example at the very least is like a sub-internet hi-risk list of interesting candidates.

    Look at how many kids were sexually victimized via the internet by LIST 99 candidates!

    There are obviously thousands of child victims.

    Where were CEOP?

    For the Lib Dem policies to work, the police would have to police.

    Why did Jim Gamble not deal with Jerome Brennan?

    Why was Brennan left to me and a few friends at the Ulster Unionist Party?

    The Brit security services, Special Branch, intel agencies, they all knew that Brennan was a sex trafficker.

    The ‘not part of my remit’ disease had a child sex trafficker doing business next to a British police station!

    Gregory Carlin

  • Gregory Carlin 6th Dec '07 - 3:42pm

    The Lib Dems policies are risible.

    If CEOP are so good how come they can’t catch pedophiles without the FBI pointing the way?

    They sit in an office re-cycling a few SOR posters and that makes them good? I don’t think so.

    A deputy sheriff in Missouri can do that much with a budget of fifty bucks.

    The Swiss Post Office has a better track record than CEOP.

    It also exposes the Lib DEm lie relating to ‘consent’ and policing in general!

    The UK processes child pornography via the adult sector.

    Has CEOP ever raided a sex shop for child pornography?

    Has CEOP ever arrested an adult pornographer for U18 material?

    The Lib Dems don’t need to change the legislation, the UK is a freebie for pedophiles as it stands.

    One of your judges even told a pedophile to buy a bike for his six year old victim!

    Child sex traffickers can set up shop next to your police stations and get away with it.

    Gregory

  • Gregory Carlin 6th Dec '07 - 5:27pm

    “It’s just a thought, but have you considered starting your own blog rather than just talking to yourself on here, particularly as almost nothing you’ve posted has anything to do with the subject?”

    Are we back to censorship again?

    Humberside & Hull is of interest in relation to the British teaching problem.

    I am very intersted in anything connected to Hull.

    G.

  • Gregory Carlin 6th Dec '07 - 5:46pm

    “16-year-olds, by the way, can legally get a job, get married, join the army, have sex… Would you raise the age for all of those, or are you as inconsisent as you are abusive?”

    The abuse on this forum is unidirectional. I am a very polite person.

    It is a very abusive and intimidating forum.

    Censorship never far from its heart.

    I wouldn’t let 16 year olds serve in conflict, a position common to most civilized countries.

    I am therefore opposed to child soldiers & child pornography.

    I only came here to get a few lib quotes for a magazine article.

    Best regards

    G.

  • Gregory Carlin 6th Dec '07 - 5:47pm

    The Mail understands the arrest followed joint surveillance between Humberside Police and their counterparts in Northern Ireland.

    Humberside officers also searched the Labour group offices in the Guildhall on Monday night as part of the investigation.

    The Mail has been told Cllr Bayes is planning to meet fellow Labour group members on Hull City Council later this week to discuss his political future after contacting some colleagues yesterday.

    However, his whereabouts are still unknown.

    A regional Labour Party spokesman said today: “We have yet to speak to him. Until we do, we cannot comment.”

    http://www.thisishullandeastriding.co.uk

  • Gregory Carlin 6th Dec '07 - 5:50pm

    If the prob was fixable, one would have fixed it already surely?

    A colleague either side, derision heaped on Irish plod,

    It is all a bit secret.

    G.

  • Gregory Carlin 6th Dec '07 - 6:08pm

    “the rest of us will get on with practical ideas that might actually help abused children and adults.”

    Like what?

    How many brain cells did it require to work out you didn’t have a recorded vetting system because a major union destroyed it behind the scenes?

    Scandal followed by crisis, followed by cover-up, welcome to Brit teaching!

    Did you really think the FBI did not wonder if the Brits actually had a vetting system?

    Pervert British teachers were causing havoc via the internet in the USA.

    Well the Lib Dems didn’t care because that was their policy.

    Your party supported immunity for teachers relative to assaults.

    Britain quite deliberately didn’t vet teachers at the coal face, from one end of the country to the next.

    How can that be? Any lib dem teachers public that out?

    Nope, the FBI did, then OFSTED were told to find what the FBI had already found.

    (DfES were already lectured by US on same issue)

    The Lib Dems thus far have not done anything to put a single pedophile in jail,

    well other than the less obvious direct contributions if you get my drift.

    That Sarah Teather stuff was also a joke she was worried about a few teachers.

    I have just had a call from Canada,

    (others are reading this, we are working on a mag article)

    US/Canad. experts may be able to produce more victims of Brit teachers in the Great Lakes area alone, than Teather’s PQ numbers of biffed chalkers, in the same period.

    So if Brit teachers are preying on many hundreds of kids in America, Prague, Canada etc.; what are they doing to *your* kids on the home turf?

    G.

  • passing tory 6th Dec '07 - 6:59pm

    I know, Alex, its tough not feeding, isn’t it. When I see a pile of bull this large the temptation to prod it just to make sure it is real, and as unctuous as it appears at first, can become overwhelming.

  • Sorry, I know I shouldn’t … and I said I wouldn’t … but I just have to:

    Gregory,

    Trafficking (of adults or minors) is clearly an important issue. If you would express yourself coherently and concisely you would probably find people on here who could help to address the issue.

    BUT, your “stream of consciousness” postings are not getting you anywhere!!!!!

    Gwyn

  • Gregory Carlin 6th Dec '07 - 8:55pm

    “I know, Alex, its tough not feeding, isn’t it. When I see a pile of bull this large the temptation to prod it just to make sure it is real, and as unctuous as it appears at first, can become overwhelming.”

    So you want me to do that Tory article in the United States?

    The one about your MPs being watered and fed over there?

    G.

  • Gregory Carlin 6th Dec '07 - 9:01pm

    “Trafficking (of adults or minors) is clearly an important issue.”

    Not to the Lib Dems it isn’t. The lib dems have been egregiously indifferent to the issue.

    As for being coherent, pray describe the effect, the outputs of a vetting system.

    The Lib Dems had to know a vetting system didn’t exist because there were no ripples, or outputs etc.

    You follow, a vetting system would cause discoverable events as a factor of being a vetting system.

    This ‘accidental’ vaporware of a vetting system common across England & Wales.

    It was planned.

    G.




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